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January 29, 2019

Can a Notary go to jail for Notary fraud?

Filed under: Technical & Legal — Tags: , , , — admin @ 2:52 am

Can a Notary go to jail for Notary fraud?
Can a Notary go to prison for Notary fraud?

Notaries very rarely end up in jail. There are many illegal things that Notaries to almost daily. However, the law seems to rarely catch up with them unless a crime is committed where there are damages. Additionally, if the crime was committed with intent to steal, embezzle, or harm someone, the Notary would be in a lot worse trouble.

Notaries typically do not administer Oaths for Jurats. Those that do, typically administer an Oath in my opinion incorrectly. I test Notaries regularly and this is how I know. It is illegal to sign a Jurat that makes you claim that you supervised an Oath when in fact you did not. That might be considered perjury, although I am not an Attorney and cannot say with any certainty. However, Notaries very rarely get in trouble for omissions in their duty.

The only time I have heard of a Notary going to jail was one who assisted in fraud involving real property. The Notary falsified paperwork, probably Deeds of some sort and helped someone steal someone else’s property. That Notary got put away for a long time.

However, Notaries end up in court regularly for things that signers did fraudulently. Some signers alter documents after they were notarized. Other signers committed identity fraud. Once in a while, someone will forge a notary seal and pretend to be a particular Notary. It is common those these acts of fraud to result in a Notary being supoenaed to court or at least being investigated.

So, unless a Notary does something intentionally to cause financial harm to another person, it is unlikely that they will end up in jail — but, then.. who knows…

You might also like:

All mortgage fraud is investigated by the FBI
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20995

Penalties for Notary misconduct, fraud and failure of duty
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=21315

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October 13, 2016

Notarization done at jail for vehicle release rejected at the Police station because Notary #1 used the wrong ack!

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings — Tags: , , — admin @ 11:32 pm

How is this possible? How can you use a wrong Acknowledgment? I heard this story from a Notary Public in some other state. But, what was wrong with the Acknowledgment? Was it from the wrong state? Was it filled out improperly? Or was the Acknowledgment labeled for a different document? I guess the Police don’t miss anything. In any case, if you are notarizing for a document that is to be submitted to a government authority, don’t miss anything, and make sure your stamp impression is clear as a bell.

You might also like:

When to ask for ID over the phone & fees at the door
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=15282

7 steps for jail notarizations
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=8634

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April 19, 2015

Point (25-27) Jails; Venues; Fraud; Marcy Notarizes a Felon!

Filed under: (2) Technical and Legal — Tags: , , , — admin @ 10:27 am

Marcy was being very careful now. She had heard horror stories about Notaries getting sued, and landing in huge trouble. Of course in real life, very few notaries get in trouble. But, they could, and Marcy didn’t want anything in her life to go wrong. She got a call from a guy name Sam. Sam seemed very normal at first. Marcy drove out to the job. She recorded Sam’s ID in her journal. Then, she asked Sam for a thumbprint. Sam seemed reluctant. That was a warning sign if Marcy had ever seen one. Sam said, “You don’t need a thumbprint.” Marcy said, “It is safer for me if I have one.” Marcy didn’t know that Sam’s ID was forged. It looked legitimate. But, she had no way to detect the difference as it was forged by someone very professional. Finally, the guy got desperate as he really needed to get notarized. He gave her the thumbprint. A month later, Marcy got a call from a fraud investigator. Apparently Sam was in a lot of trouble. The Feds were catching up with him. Sam was doing fake transactions in false names for huge dollar amounts and cheating people. Marcy asked if they would like a copy of the journal entry that had a thumbprint. The Feds were very happy that she had taken that thumbprint. Without that one piece of evidence they would be virtually unarmed against this felon! A few weeks later Marcy got a call from the Feds. They caught Sam, whose real name was Charles. They were going to put him away for a long time, and they wouldn’t have been able to convict him without Marcy’s help!

Then, a week later, a Lender had a job for Marcy. It would pay extra. The Lender asked Marcy to save a few extra spaces in her journal. Marcy asked why. The Lender said, “Just do it.” Marcy had never been a fan of corrupt Lenders or Nike commercials. So, she just didn’t do it as she knew that was illegal, although she didn’t know what the Lender had in mind. At the signing, the Lender asked Marcy to put yesterday’s date on the transaction. Marcy declined. Then, the Lender asked if she wanted to get paid. Marcy replied that whatever he was paying wouldn’t do her much good if she was at “county.” And that whatever he was paying her (or not paying her) wouldn’t be a huge loss to him if he were locked up at “county”. A day after the signing, the Lender wanted another favor from Marcy. He wanted her to send a loose Jurat with her stamp on it because the certificate section on the Deed had gotten torn by one of their secretaries. Marcy told him that she would send him a certificate, but not a loose one. She said, “Just send the Deed back to me, and I’ll shred the old certificate and add the new one — that way it is legal.” The Lender didn’t like that and said, “Just send it.” Marcy was fed up by now. She told the Lender she was reporting him to the Secretary of State and for him to never contact her again. Just some advice for Notaries: If you want to stay out of trouble, you should consider declining work from anyone who makes even a suggestion of doing anything illegal!

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Point (25) Identification & Jail Issues
Notaries who visit jails may be very aware that inmates never have an identification document which is suitable for notarization on their person. As a result, they might have their mother, girlfriend, or Attorney come and meet the Notary at the time of the notarization and bring the ID which is hopefully current. Jail wristbands do not constitute acceptable identification. However, many states allow the use of one or two Credible Witnesses. Please consult your state Notary handbook for specific laws relevant to your state.

Many States Allow Credible Witnesses
In California, Florida, and many other states, you can use two Credible Witnesses who know the signer, but who do not know the notary to identify the signer. If you visit jails, you might have to use this method of identification to legally notarize someone who doesn’t have an ID. Make sure these witnesses produce their own ID and sign your journal.

Personal Appearance
Many people do not understand the important concept of personal appearance. To be legally notarized, the signer must personally appear before the Notary. That means they need to be in the same room a few feet away, or on the other side of a glass in a jail. Once I was asked to notarize someone 50 feet away barely visible from a jail window. I couldn’t clearly see the person and I declined to notarize as that person was not personally appearing before me.

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Point (26) Wrong Venue
What if the wrong venue is inscribed within the Notary certificate? What do you do? There are several things you can legally do. You can take a loose certificate, staple it to the document, inscribe the correct venue, and then complete the rest of the form. Or, you can cross-out the incorrect county, initial, and write in the correct county name on the original certificate. The third solution is to notarize the document twice: once with the existing certificate and then a second time with new certificate (two journal entrees necessary in this case) in hopes that one of the two will be accepted by the document custodian. It’s complicated. But, what the law says is acceptable and what the document custodian will accept are often based on two entirely different standards.

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Point (27) Deterring Fraud
Notary Fraud is a serious issue. Fortunately, it doesn’t happen very often. But, it did happen to me. Luckily, due to my prudent practices, I was able to use three pieces of evidence to prove that a particular notarization was indeed done fraudulently. After investigation, we learned that the fraudulent notarization happened to have been done by a crooked Title Officer’s secretary!

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What Constitutes Notary fraud?
There are many types of Notary fraud. Here are a few.

(1) If a signer falsifies an identification document, that would be fraudulent.

(2) If a Notary puts an incorrect date on a notarization on purpose, that would be fraudulent.

(3) If someone uses a Notary’s seal who is not the rightful owner of that seal, that is fraud.

(4) If a signer signs someone else’s name and has that signature notarized, that would be fraud.

(5) If a Notary or anyone else purposely attaches a Notary certificate to a document it is not associated with, that is fraud.

(6) Swapping pages on a document after it has been notarized is fraudulent.

(7) Using an expired Notary Seal is fraud.

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Here are Some Ways to Deter Fraud:

(1) Use an embosser as a secondary seal for all pages of all documents notarized.

(2) Avoid leaving any blanks in notarized documents as those could be filled in after the fact.

(3) Staple Notary certificates to the documents they are associated with.

(4) Take thumbprints in your journal for all notarizations just in case the signer’s ID is forged.

(5) Be thorough when you fill out the additional information sections in an Acknowledgment certificate.

(6) Be sure to indicate how many pages are in the document.

(7) Be sure to indicate the name of the signer, and their capacity if applicable.

(8) Be sure to indicate the document date to better identify it.

(9) Be sure to indicate the name of the document.

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Additional Optional Information for Acknowledgments?
Acknowledgment certificates have room for the document name, document date, and number of pages among other information. This information helps to identify which document it is associated with. Since Title likes to dismantle stapled documents which is a very questionable practice, you need to make sure they know which Acknowledgment goes with which document.

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There are Three Reasons why this Additional Optional Information Should be Required.

(a) If the certificate is accidentally removed from the document, it will be clear which document it is associated with. That would help someone who made an honest mistake.

(b) If a fraudulent person wants to re-attach the certificate to another document, he would be deterred by the fact that there will be evidence to show that he fraudulently attached the certificate to the wrong document.

(c) If a fraudulent person re-attaches the certificate to another document, they can easily be caught after the fact if investigated.

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These reasons are all related, yet all different. You assist the honest re-attaching, you deter fraud, and you catch bad guys when you investigate. Got it?

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You might also like:

30 Point Course Table of Contents
http://blog.123notary.com/?cat=3442

30 Point Course (28-30) Beneficial Interest, Negligence, E&O
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=14532

Seal Forgery, it happened to me
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=724

Fraud & forgery in the Notary profession
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2294

What is a venue in a notary certificate?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=8454

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January 20, 2011

Go to jail, but DO collect $100

Filed under: Ken Edelstein — Tags: , , — admin @ 1:19 am

Go to Jail, but DO collect $100
As a notary on official business, not to become a “resident”. I’ve been to several jails. They, so far, have shared a virtually identical routine. Oops, I’m getting a bit ahead of myself. First, you need the assignment. In your profile on 123notary.com did you check the box for Jail Signings. You can access that part of your profile by selecting “Edit Additional Info”. While there glance at your commission expiration date – often overlooked, it needs to be kept current. OK, now you do qualify to show in a search for Jail.

Once the call comes in, obtain the basic information; stressing the need for ID. Not just asking that it will be available; verify that your state mandated ID will be available. The jails I have visited issued a “must carry” photo ID to each inmate. I do not accept that ID. Often, you will be meeting an attorney who needs the inmate signature notarized. Once in a while an attorney will present their interpretation of what is proper ID. They tend to be good talkers. True, it’s a different environment; but you know notary law; they don’t. Have the ID issue fully handled prior to any making any commitment.

You might not be admitted. Accept that as a fact. The facility might have a rule that only the attorney and family can visit. Make it absolutely clear to your client that your fee is earned by meeting them at the facility and putting forth “best efforts” to complete the job. My visits have always been with attorneys. They say the right things to the admitting guard. But there are no guarantees; they are not (IMHO) obligated to let you in. With ID and getting in being issues, all jail Notary assignments are prepaid. Make sure to have your driver license and current proof of your notary commission.

You should prepare for your visit. What works for me is having two zip lock plastic bags. One is for what I wish to bring in, the other for what I cannot bring in. After checking in, the two bags are surrendered at the window. They are very choosey about what goes in. Your embosser will probably be forbidden, stamping device usually accepted. However, a better strategy is to go in with absolutely nothing. Do the notarizations in the lobby, after you leave the secure area. On those days I wear my Velcro closing belt, without a bit of metal. When I tell the metal detector operator it’s Velcro and has no metal; I’m usually allowed to wear it.

It’s a Jail. You will be told what to do. Avoid asking any questions and comply immediately with what you are told to do. Doors slide open and clang shut. Your photograph may be taken. Your hand might receive a visitor stamp, similar to the “paid for admission” at many events. You will be told to sit someplace and wait. They are not in a hurry. Time is what they serve, often in great quantities. Eventually, the prisoner will arrive; sometimes you will be directed to a conference room. The cardinal rule is to give nothing whatsoever to the inmate. Nothing. If you had to bring in a pen, make sure you leave with it.

ID checked, signatures given oath; take possession of the pages with the signatures witnessed. You don’t want your client accidently adding or changing documents for different ones that were also signed. Making certain to enter the correct county in the Venue; complete the process after your “release”. You should do at least one Jail “visit”; strict adherence to notary law will follow.

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You might also like:

Meeting clients at a jail
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=274

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January 12, 2011

Notary Jail

Filed under: Best Humorous Posts,Humorous Posts,Popular on Facebook (very) — Tags: — admin @ 12:00 pm

WARDEN: Welcome to Notary Jail — Don’t drop the embosser!
It’s time for mug shots. Turn to the right and say “scilicit” — that’s a notary term. You would know that if you read your Notary handbook. And by the way, selling your notary seal on eBay, was it really worth it?

NOTARY: Hey, I got paid $800 for it. I was in a pinch and needed the money.

WARDEN: Well you won’t have to worry about being behind on rent here!

I think that I am the first person to come up with this concept. Notary jail. Where Notaries go when they’ve been bad. But, most Notaries have been bad, they just didn’t get caught because their secretary of state’s don’t bother to enforce a single law. What is the point of having laws if you don’t enforce them?

Oath Omissions
If you forget to administer an Oath you should be sent to Notary jail and get booked. The first thing they will do is thumbprint you in their journal. Then, they will ask you if you take journal thumbprints. If you say, “My state doesn’t require that.” Then they will put you in solitary confinement. After all, an innocent person could be scammed out of everything they own and the culprit could run free simply because you didn’t take a thumbprint.

ID-ing
If you didn’t ID someone correctly, then a cell in the insane ward would be in order. Since you let John Smith sign as John W Smith, you will also not mind being around five people who are sure that they are Abraham Lincoln.

Loose Certificates
And then there are the people who don’t fill in certificates properly or send loose certificates in the mail. Tisk tisk. The staff at Notary jail will goof on your jail paperwork if you do that and you’ll be in for a long time.

Jail Food?
Oh, and the food at Notary jail? Embossed flat bread sandwiches. You get that nice raised seal embossed pattern on every bite. Then they have a breakfast cereal called frosted mini-seals. Oh, and one more thing. They have soap shaped like a Notary seal. But, don’t drop the soap (or don’t drop the seal.)

Entertainment at Notary jail involves watching television documentaries on the notary profession and NNA how to materials. When they run out of sleeping pills, they have written Notary materials for you to study. The yard outside is shaped like a giant notary seal. You get an hour of outside time per day.

Notary Questions
And if they ask Notary questions in Notary jail, don’t talk back to the guards like you normally do to Jeremy. Just answer questions the way they were asked and you might get time off for good behavior.

Conclusion
In real life, the Notaries who end up in jail are those who committed fraud involving real property. Trying to steal someone’s property and put it in someone else’s name using your Notary commission is the worst crime you can commit.

Then there are the cases where fraud happens that is not the Notary’s fault. Perhaps if the Notary had been more careful filling out the certificates or journal entries it would be easier to prove what happened. But, in such cases, the notary ends up in court, not jail.

If you do end up in Notary jail, you might bump into a few of your Mortgage Broker clients. On the other hand, they have their own jail — Mortgage Jail.

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Can a Notary go to jail for Notary fraud?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=21353

Putting jails and hospitals into your notes section
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19266

Go to jail but DO collect $100
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=15361

Find a notary who goes to Twin Towers Jail and other Los Angeles Prisons
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=21349

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>

December 10, 2010

Meeting Clients at a Jail

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings — Tags: , , , , — admin @ 2:55 am

Meeting at jail

I have done many jail notaries, and one of the biggest challenges is meeting the client. The inmate is never the client. They are locked up and don’t have phone access. The signer’s girlfriend, attorney, or mother is generally the client. The problem is that when doing a prison notary job, you deal with the criminal class, they are not always so reliable. Meeting someone at a jail is not so easy. Some clients just don’t show up which is why you should not get in your car to go to the jail until you have received a confirmation call.

If the client doesn’t have a cell phone, I would strongly consider not going to the job, since you won’t be able to reach them if you need to. Of the clients that do show up, finding them is not so easy. One client wanted to meet me at the door to the jail. He always goes in the back, and I always go in the front. I waited for an hour at the front door and he waited near the back door to the waiting room. If you are going to meet at a door, you better specify the door. There is the door to the jail near the street, the door to the waiting room, side doors, and many other doors. Its even possible to be at the wrong jail. There are three jails in Los Angeles within two minutes walking of each other. Maybe its better to meet at Denny’s.

I met many individuals at the parking lot where the Ethiopian attendant was. It was easy. It was on a particular intersection, and nobody else was there — except the Ethiopian guys who work there and all were on a first name basis with me. Another solution was to meet at the cash register at Dennies. There is only one register, so that makes it easy.

The main thing to remember
You need to remember that  it’s not where you meet, its how you identify exactly where you are meeting. This is especially true if you go to a new location that you are not familiar with. Jails are complicated. There is one place to park, and you have to find the correct entrance, and then know which hallway to go down.

The next problem is waiting.
You might be at the jail all day. You could have a lock down, an inmate who was moved to a different cell, moved to a different jail, or who was not identified correctly. The guards might just be slow that day. Anything is possible. If you don’t agree ahead of time how much you charge for excess waiting, you might wait all day without pay.

Identification is another problem.
The inmate’s bracelet is not an acceptable notary ID. Make sure the client who meets you has a current ID that is acceptable in your state, or else it might be a very short notarization. I have used credible witnesses many times in jails too, but in California we need two of them, so make sure you have the right amount of witnesses.

Travel fee up front?
Since there are so many difficulties with jails and jail signings, you might get the travel portion of your fee up front. Then, if there is a problem getting to the signer, or identifying them, you get paid for your trouble instead of having a total loss. You should charge a generous amount for jail signings, because you will get stiffed 10-25% of the time, so be prepared for the realities of life.

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November 2, 2010

Jail Notary Jobs from A to Z

Filed under: Comprehensive Guides,Hospital & Jail Signings,Posts With Many Comments — Tags: , , , , — admin @ 8:14 am

Have you ever done a jail notary?

Have you ever visited a Jail? Would you be afraid to go to one?
In reality, a jail is a very place place to visit. There are guards everywhere, and the bad guys are behind bars. Notaries make a pretty penny notarizing at jails, in fact some make so much it should be criminal to charge that much! You can charge a lot higher travel fee going to a jail because its a lot more trouble than a regular signing, and few notaries are willing to go. There is also more to know. Jail signings are usually the result of physical or online yellow page advertising, not directories that cater to loan signings ( such as ours ).

Who hires you to do a jail signing?
If you are called to do a Jail signing, it is never the inmate who calls you, but their girlfriend, family member, or attorney. The inmates don’t want to blow their (1) phone call calling a notary – and I don’t blame them. You need to arrange a time and meeting point near the jail where you are sure to be able to spot each other – at the same place at the same time. Its easy to get lost at a jail.

Idenfication for jail-birds
When you get the call, ask them if they have identification for the signer, and if they do, then have them read it to you – including the expiration date, before you book an appointment. If they don’t have ID, don’t use the jail bracelet wristband, thats not acceptable by notary standards. You might be able to use credible witnesses if you can get two of them who have ID that is current – if credible witnesses are allowed in your state. If you can’t get identification, you might be able to do a Jurat which doesn’t require identification in most states. However, California now requires ID for Jurats as well. Unfortunately, most documents such as a power of attorney or grant deed are normally done with an acknowlegment, not a jurat. But, you can attach a Jurat form and hope for the best. A recorded document might not be accepted for recording if its not done with the proper wording, but you never know.

Where do you meet your client for a jail signing?
You have to arrange to meet a stranger at the jail at a certain time. Jails are large confusing places, so it might be better to meet at a well marked street corner. If you meet in a jail, you might not know which part of the jail to meet. Waiting room? Hall to the waiting room? Front dest? Out side the bront door? IN the parking lot? Its easy for two people to be at opposite ends of the same facility or get lost. Make sure the person meeting you has a cell phone and make sure you confirm with them, otherwise you might be making a trip for nothing. Jail notaries are not for the elite of society and blowing off a notary would not ruffle the conscience of most of your potential clients for this type of job.

Logistics at the jail.
Once you are actually at the jail, you meet the client, and then fill out forms with the guards to be granted permission to enter. Make sure you know what cell the inmate is in and that they haven’t been moved. Be prepared to wait – jails have a very different sense of time from the way a busy notaries sees time. Follow the instructions for where to go, and then find a guard to bring the inmate to you once you are there. You will have to pass your journal and forms through slits with help of the guard.

You might also like:

Find a Notary who can notarize at a Los Angeles County jail
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=21349

A typical botched jail job: fees at the door misunderstood
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2597

Putting hospitals & jails in your notes section on your profile
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19266

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January 9, 2022

Which rules are laws, Lender practices, or best practices?

Filed under: Loan Signing 101 — Tags: , , , , , — admin @ 9:24 am

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Notary Rules or Industry Rules?

It is confusing with all the standards in the Notary business. When 123notary teaches Notary practices, we are not teaching laws, but solid practices. Many Notaries argue with us about our practices because they are not required by law. That is the whole point — we are not teaching law because we are not authorized to, and because we don’t know it. We do know solid notary practices, and teach it as you can get into trouble for not knowing your basics. However, notaries have many misconceptions about the rules of the industry. So, let me clarify.

1. You can always over sign — industry practice (not a law)
Is this a Notary law, industry practice, or what? This statement means that you can sign a document with a name that is longer than the name typed in the signature line. However, that does not make it legal to notarize that longer name unless you can prove the name with an ID. Pleasing the Lender is one aspect of being a Notary. Obeying the law is a much more important one. If you displease the Lender you get fired. If you get in trouble with the law you can end up in jail. Pick your poison.

2. The name on the ID has to match
Please keep in mind that there are four names we have to keep track of:
(a) The name on the ID
(b) The name typed on the signature section of the document.
(c) The name signed on the document
(d) The name on the acknowledgment.

In theory these names could all be different variations, but it is cleaner if they are identical. The critical points are that:

(e) The name on the Acknowledgment must be identical or matching but shorter than the name on the signature line of the document. If the signature on the document says John W Smith, you can put John Smith or John W Smith in the Acknowledgment to please the law, but the shorter name might not please the client.
(f) The name on the Acknowledgment must be provable based on the name on the ID, but does not have to be an exact match. The ID could say John W Smith and you can put John Smith in the Acknowledgment if you like.
(g) The name signed on the document can be identical or matching but longer than the name typed on the document to please most Lenders, but legally notarizing the longer signature or shorter signature is dependent on proving all of the components of their name with an ID.

3. The Lender is the boss of the Notary Public (true for signings, but not for the actual notary work)
The Lender is your boss as to the general assignment, and what happens with loan documents. They are NOT your boss about Notary issues and you should not ask them for Notary advice ever as they might have you do something illegal out of ignorance or greed. You ask your state’s notary division if you have a Notary question and perhaps the NNA hotline and that’s it. The Notary can ask the Lender their preference in how something is notarized if there is more than one legal way to do it, but you can not ask a Lender how to do your job. You are the appointed Notary, not them. If they want to do it their way, they should come over with their stamp and do it their way which hopefully is legal — but, it is their commission at stake if it is not legal. Don’t risk your commission depending on the Lender or Title for Notary advice.

4. The Notary is the boss of the Lender?
The Notary is a state appointed official who represents their state, although the state is not the entity that pays them. If there is a discussion between the Lender and the Notary as to how a Notary act is done, the Notary dictates how it should be done. If there are multiple legal ways to do something such as fixing a mistake by crossing out and initialing vs. attaching a loose certificate — then, the Notary can ask for the Lender’s preference, but not for advice. However, there are liability issues with doing cross outs and initialing. It looks like tampering and you don’t want to end up in court. So, once again, it is the Notary’s discretion as to how problems are solved when there are multiple methods to solve. You can ask the Lender what they like or you can dictate to the Lender what you are going to do. But, the Notary is the boss of Notary work. If they don’t like it, they can find another Notary. It is best if you explain the reasons why you want to do something a particular way. If your reason sounds prudent, there is a chance you might get some respect for your decision. Most Notaries don’t think issues out carefully and do not have well thought out reasons for anything they do. Read our course more and become reasonable! Your commission might depend on it.

5. Send me a loose certificate or jurat in the mail (illegal)
Acknowledgment or Jurat certificates must be stapled to the documents they are associated with. If there is one floating around, you cannot create another one until you destroy the original yourself. Some states do not allow creating new certificates for botched notarizations and require you to do the notarization all over again. Consult your notary handbook on this issue, especially in California where there are many new rules created in the last few years that I have heard about but not actually read to my satisfaction.

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You might also like:

The ID says John Smith
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19953

What is the cleanest way to rectify an error on a certificate?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20018

13 ways you might get sued as a Notary
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19614

5 books every notary should own (and read)
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=3668

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January 6, 2022

A tale of four notaries in hospitals

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings — Tags: , , , , , — admin @ 8:09 am

This was originally published many years ago.

 A tale of four notaries and their adventures at hospitals.
 
Hospital notarizations are very tricky and there is a lot that can go wrong. We have several resource pages regarding hospital notarizations to steer notaries away from pitfalls.  The characters in this story are NOT based on real characters, but each one of them has either a single attitude or attribute that is similar to a real person that I am acquainted with.  This silly story will show how each notary fared and how their way of thinking worked in the long run.  The various notaries include an Arkansas notary, an Illinois notary, a Florida notary, and a Pennsylvania notary public.
 
(1) Jeremy Blunt, a notary in Arkansas was called to do a hospital notarization in Little Rock on the following day.  Jeremy, with his blunt, but thorough manner told them, “Make sure to tell the nurses not to drug the patient within eight hours of the signing.”.  The caregiver, who was happy to have a thorough notary, overlooked Jeremy’s blunt manner and was very willing to coordinate a temporary lapse in morphine, so that the signer (an elderly relative) would be able to sign the papers.  Jeremy called an hour before the signing to have the caregiver read the ID information to him, and had the caregiver verify that the signer had not been drugged recently, was awake and able to conversate, and wouldn’t be drugged until after the notarization, and that the nurses had been informed.  The caregiver was standing next to the bedridden signer to MAKE SURE that no intravenus drugs were given.
 
Jeremy arrives at the signing with his notary bag, records the ID in his journal, gets a signature in his journal and the document(s), fills out the certificate form(s), stamps them, affixes his official Arkansas notary seal, staples the documents together, and is done.  Jeremy gets his fee, thanks everyone in a very blunt way, and leaves.  The signers say, “That Jeremy gets the job done — he’s a bit blunt, but polite, and he saved our rear ends big time!!!  That OTHER notary let us down.  Thank god for good notaries!”
 
(2) Linda Liberty, a notary in Illinois was called to do a hospital notarization in Chicago the following day.  Since she had a strict policy of not butting into anyone’s medical business, not asking questions, and minding her own business, she omitted to ask the caregiver if the signer was on medication.  After, all thats NONE OF MY BUSINESS!  The next day, she gets to the hospital, the caregiver says, “Thank you for coming”.  Linda politely says, “Its my pleasure to serve the public wholeheartedly”.  Linda goes to the hospital room where the patient / signer is.  The patient is high on morphine and in a stupor, barely able to keep his eyes open. Linda says, “Sorry, but according to Illinois notary laws, I am not authorized to notarize someone who is not capable of thinking or communicating coherently.  I can not notarize this person in this condition, ID or no ID.  The caregiver (the daughter of the signer) said, gee, thats too bad.  Linda says, my travel fee is $60 for hospitals please.  The daughter says, “BUT, YOU DIDN”T DO ANYTHING”.  Linda Liberty says, “Excuse me, but I drove an hour and a half here in traffic, paid a toll for the bridge, sat here talking to you for twenty minutes, paid $15 for gas, and have an hour drive home. I did quite a bit and I want to get paid!!!”  The daughter said, sorry, but we can not pay you.  We are very sorry.
 
(3) Ralph Machiavelli, a notary in Florida (no relation to Niccolo… at least not by blood), got a call to do a signing of a power of attorney in a hospital in Tampa.  The power of attorney would be for the signer’s son in law to take over all of his banking and real estate transactions. Ralph had lots of experience and thought ahead.  This Florida notary public had had his fingers burned a few times and knew the techniques for keeping out of trouble and getting paid.  Ralph told the client that he collects a $75 travel fee at the door BEFORE he sees the signer.  He, then charges $10 per for stamp for an acknowledged signature which is the maximum allowed fee in Florida.  The son in law of the signer agreed, and they set the appointment for the next day at 10am.
 
Ralph gets to the appointment.  Collects his travel fee in CASH, and says, “Thank you very much”.  Lets see the signer now.  The two of them proceed to walk down the long corridor, around some bends, up an elevator, down another corridor, past a nurse station, to the left, to the right, and then into a room.  They found the signer was drugged, sleeping, and in no condition to sign or even talk.  The son in law tried to wake the signer up.  The signer eventually woke up after twenty minutes of blinking and saying, “mmmmmmm?”.   Ralph said, can you ask dad to sign this form?  The son in law said, I’ll try.  After twenty additional minutes of wasting time (a result of the medication), the son in law said, its no use, they drugged him this morning.  Maybe I have my $75 back?  Ralph says, “I’m sorry, but in addition to traveling, I spent forty minutes here waiting for your signer to sign something.  This was a complete waste of time.  Next time please make sure your dad is ready to sign at the appointed time. That means…. NO DRUGS”.  Ralph returns home with his money.  He pleasures himself with a nice baby back rib dinner, and then returns home.
 
(4) Sharisse Washington, Pennsylvania Notary Public at large, doesn’t stand for this type of nonsense or bluntness that happened in the above three stories.  She has thirty years of experience, and carries a handheld database of how to handle each situation with all its variations and pitfalls.  Sharisse minds her p’s and q’s, dots her i’s and crosses her t’s.  She informs everybody in a polite way, and doesn’t put herself in a position that anything will go wrong either.   This notary in Pennsylvania gets a call to go to a Philadelphia hospital to do a notarization the next day.  She politely asks the client if they have an ID for the signer.  She asks if they could read the ID to her, so that she can verify that they have the ID, and that its current.  She asks if the patient EVER recieves medication or is likely to receive it during the day of the signing. She asks if its possible that they could provide a “WINDOW OF TIME”, where they could be sure that the signer wasn’t going to be drugged.  She asks what the name and type of the document is.  She asks if it is in their possession and if they can read the document to her (so, she can verify that they really have it).  After she asks all of the questions on her database’s check list, the cordially thanks the client for answering her questions and assures them that she will be at the hospital lobby at 10am the following day. 
 
This Pennsylvania Notary calls at 9am to verify that they have the identification handy and that the signer is not drugged. Sharisse shows up at the hospital at 9:55 just to be on the safe side.  The client is there, thanks her for being early.  They go up to the room.  The signer is awake, sober, and conversational.  The signer signs the document and journal. Its a bit if a struggle being old and being weak, but the signer does it… because she is sober and awake… and sober…not drugged.   Sharisse does all of the remaining necessary paperwork, thanks everybody, collects her fee, and is off to her next appointment which she allowed a sufficient amount of time to get to.
 
Now that you have read how each of these four notaries handled a hospital job, its up to you to decide how you want to handle this type of job. Remember, that hospital and jail notary jobs and many more potential pitfalls and things that can go wrong than a regular office or home notary job.  Do your homework, be polite and stay out of trouble, and that way, you will be able to make a living. Otherwise, it is you who will be sorry.

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January 1, 2022

Who is the authority at a Notary Loan Signing?

Filed under: Loan Signing 101 — Tags: , , — admin @ 10:13 pm

Originally published several years ago.

Notary Public Authority

We often ask questions about authority to signing agents, and the results are horrifying. Most Notaries do not know who is in charge of what. So, this article will sum it up clearly.

Notary Public
A Notary Public is a state appointed state official who is paid by customers, but whose “boss” or authority is the state Notary division. Many Notaries Public seem to be confused as to who their boss is, the one paying them or the one commissioning them. The problem is further complicated by the fact that the ones paying them often pay them for more than just Notary services as travel, pick up, drop off, and supervision of non-notarized signatures and packages seem to be part of the deal if you are a Signing Agent.

The Notary is the sole authority regarding what goes in a Notary certificate such as an Acknowledgment, Jurat, etc., what goes in the journal, what is allowed or not allowed, and how a notarization should be done.

It is common that Notaries have questions during a loan signing and direct those questions to the Lender or Title representative. This is okay for Title or Lending questions, but not for Notary questions where the Notary may only turn for help to their state Notary division, official Notary handbook, or perhaps the NNA hotline.

Notaries should NOT ask the Lender for Notary advice because:
1. The Lender is probably not a Notary
2. If the Lender is a Notary they might be in a different state
3. If the Lender is a Notary and in the same state they might not be knowledgeable.
4. If the Lender is a Notary, in the same state, and knowledgeable, they might (are likely to) give you advice that would make the job go more smoothly for them, yet have tremendous liability for you.
5. You are the one appointed to the job, so even if the person you are asking for advice is a Notary, they are not the one whose commission number gets put on the certificate, and you are the one going to jail if something goes wrong. Therefor, you have to know your laws and what you can and cannot do, etc.

Who can initial and where?
Any initials on a Notary certificate are done exclusively by the Notary Public. It looks like tampering if the borrower or anyone else makes marks on a Notary certificate. The borrower may initial documents, but not the Notary certificate or Notary section in or attached to a notarized document

The Lender
The Lender is the “boss” of what happens with loan documents. If the Lender authorizes a change, initialing, cross outs, etc., on an actual loan document that is NOT in the notary section, that is up to them and they are the authority on that matter, not the Notary. The minute the issue becomes with a Notary certificate, then the authority swings over to the Notary (even if the Notary doesn’t have a clue what to do.)

The Title Officer
The appointed Title company might be a good source of information about how to handle any issues that might come up with Title documents or recorded documents. You can ask them if you have questions, but don’t let them answer Notary questions.

Issues of Preference can be asked to the Lender
Sometimes there is more than one legal way to handle a situation. If there is an error on a preprinted Acknowledgment, and your state allows a choice of crossing out & initialing vs. using a fresh Acknowledgment form, you have a choice. The Notary has the right to make that choice on his/her own and choose the option that he/she feels is more prudent or ask the Lender. However, this is a situation where the Notary can ask the Lender not for advice, but for preference. If the Lender would prefer a loose Acknowledgment stapled on to the document rather than crossing out & initialing the original form, the Notary can proceed accordingly.

The Borrower
The borrower has the right to sign, not sign, tell you where to park and more. Their preferences matter as well.

Your State
Your state Notary division decides what the laws are in your state, how they are explained or document in your official Notary handbook, etc. They are your boss, so you do whatever they say. Additionally, if you are weak on your Notary knowledge, that can lead to ending up in court as a witness, having your commission revoked, suspended or terminated. Additionally, it is possible to be convicted of a crime if you are thought to be involved in property related fraud, or if you filled out a form stating that an Oath was taken when in fact it was never taken which is a daily fraud that most Notaries engage in that is unacceptable.
.

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