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December 28, 2019

Alzheimer’s signings — how to determine whether to carry through or not?

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings — admin @ 11:07 pm

Let’s say you are at a hospital for a POA signing or Medical Directive signing. Let’s say that the signer has been officially diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease. Do you notarize or not? If you notarize, and the signing comes back to haunt you in court, the small fee you made will not be worth any significant risk of court time. However, if you can get the signer to describe the document, why they are signing it, who they are, who their relatives are, and who the president of the United States is, they are probably competent enough to sign.

Now, let’s say that a medical professional at the hospital advises you not to notarize for the patient due to this mental disease. The fact is that you are the Notary, and only you can decide the fate of the notarization. The main thing is to consider the risks, and how you can go about proving competency in a prudent way.

I would continue writing about this article, but I forgot what the topic was. Hmm.

You might also like:

12 questions to ask for hospital notarizations
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20519

A tale of four notaries at hospitals
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=463

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October 5, 2019

Hospital signing in reverse. The Notary was bedridden

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings — admin @ 11:20 pm

A Notary had to go to the hospital for a hernia. He was in pain and drugged part of the time. But, he had a thriving business. and his customers would come to see him in the hospital.

CUSTOMER: Hi, I need this Affidavit notarized. I’ll sign it right here. You’re paying attention right?

NOTARY: (nodding off) ummm.

CUSTOMER: You are paying attention right?

NOTARY: Oh yeah..

CUSTOMER: (signs the document) Can you fill out the Jurat and sign it here?

NOTARY: I am not myself today. I might need to do a signature by X

CUSTOMER: According to what you told me last time only elderly customers can do a signature by mark or X.

NOTARY: Just kidding. Let me just fill this out… okay. Now, do you solmenly swear to uphold the constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic?

CUSTOMER: When you say domestic, does that include Consuela my maid? she is foreign AND a domestic.

NOTARY: You just have to make things complicated.

CUSTOMER: And that Oath has nothing to do with my document. That is the morphene talking, right?

NOTARY: I was just testing you. I’m actually sober, believe it or not. That’s why I’m being so mean. When my father arranged my marriage to Maria he said, “And he’ll beat you constantly — but only when he’s sober which is very little of the time.”

CUSTOMER: How reassuring. Okay, my Oath please? Never mind. I solemnly swear under God that the contents of this document are true and correct to the best of my knowledge.

NOTARY: I hereby affix my stamp. I gotta get out of here. I don’t want to be late to the straight pride parade in Boston of all places. Don’t you just love people from Boston — how refreshing — standing up for traditional values.

CUSTOMER: Yes, I find them refreshing, especially when they call people a “fricking retahd.”

NOTARY: Me too – gotta love it. I pronounce you man and document.

CUSTOMER: I am going to pass on kissing the document.

NOTARY: That will make you more popular in Boston as a result.

You might also like:

12 questions to ask for hospital notarizations
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20519

A tale of four notaries at hospitals
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=463

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November 21, 2018

12 questions to ask for hospital notarizations

Filed under: Comprehensive Guides,Hospital & Jail Signings,Other Guest Bloggers,Popular on Twitter — Tags: — admin @ 9:23 am

SAFETY TIPS AND 12 QUESTIONS TO ASK FOR HOSPITAL NOTARIZATIONS:
I get calls frequently for Notarizations in Jails and Hospitals.
This blog will focus on things you must do to protect yourself from lawsuits and damages when you get a desperate call to go out to a hospital to notarize documents to be signed by a patient, moistly a Power of Attorney. The phone call invariably comes from the child who has a parent admitted to the hospital.
What do you do as the Notary when the person calling says they will pay you whatever you charge as your mobile fee? Remember Rule #1: It is not always about the money. It is about your ability to follow the Notary laws and perform your job without taking short cuts.
The following list of questions is a short summary of the steps I have actually taken when I got such a call.

1. What is your relationship to the patient?
2. Do you have any other siblings or relatives who have a beneficial interest in the transaction?
3. Is the patient conscious? Coherent? On any medication?
4. Does the patient have a current valid ID with him or can you make it available when the notary arrives at the hospital?
5. Is the patient able to sign his name without any help?
6. Does the patient speak English and can he understand and answer simple questions coherently?
7. Does the patient have an attending physician and a Nurse assigned to him?
8. Do you have the number to the attending physician and nurse because I need to talk to them to get an accurate idea of the health and overall condition of the patient?
9. When can I talk to the patient directly by phone with a nurse present in the room?
10. What type of document are you having notarized?
11. What dates and times work for the patient?
12. My mobile fees are _____ and $15/signature notarized. After I get there if I make the determination that the person is unable to understand anything I ask him or is being forced to sign, I will not be able to notarize the document but will still charge you my mobile fee for coming out based on your representations over the phone. Are you okay with that because I don’t want to get into any arguments after I get there?

Believe me there has been more than one occasion I can recall where I had to leave without notarizing a document because the patient was unable to understand anything I asked, was incoherent and simply could not sign or even hold a pen to just mark an “X”. It is better to walk away from a Notarization where you know instinctively that it is wrong because the signer is not aware of what he is signing and inevitably you will end up being a party to a litigation by interested parties who believe that the Notary failed to take into account the coherence and soundness of mind of the signer at the time of the Notarization. This would invalidate your notarization and worse yet force you to pay legal expenses to defend yourself. Is it worth it? Absolutely not!

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The carrot, the stick, the notary, and the bag
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When to ask for ID over the phone & fees at the door
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=15282

A tale of four notaries at hospitals
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=463

Hospital Notary jobs from A to Z
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=76

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September 4, 2018

Find a Notary who can notarize an inmate at Men’s Central, Twin Towers, Century Regional. Pitches Detention Center

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings — Tags: , , , , , , — admin @ 2:38 am

Do you need a Notary who can do prison notarizations? 123notary has many Notaries who offer mobile service to jails, prisons, correctional facilities, penitentiaries, and detention centers. Here are some issues involved:

1. Someone needs to meet the Notary at the jail. That person can be an Attorney, family member, friend, or paid assistant.

2. The inmate must have identification that is satisfactory to the state where the notarization takes place. It is ideal if the person meeting the Notary has a current ID for the inmate such as a valid and current driver license, ID card, passport, etc. However, if the inmate has a wristband or jail ID card that is acceptable to the state where the notarization is taking place.

3. A California Notary may accept an inmate identification card issues by the state Department of Correction and Rehabilitation.

4. Florida allows Notaries to accept inmate ID cards issued by the U.S. Department of Justice or Bureau of Federal Prisons.

5. Credible witnesses are allowed in most states. A credible witness is a person who can vouch for the identity of a signer who does not have ID. Typically the credible witness must swear under Oath as to the identity of the signer (exact procedure depends on state laws) and must be identified by the notary and sign the journal in the additional information section. Some states allow one credible witness who knows both the Notary and inmate while others allow two who both know the signer, but don’t necessarily know the Notary. Other states allow one or two, while some states do not allow identification via credible identifying witnesses.

6. In states that require a journal, you must find a way to get the journal to the other side of the glass. Normally a warden will be happy to assist you with this task, however wardens might keep you waiting for five or ten minutes in my experience.

7. Lock downs happen in jails. If a lock down happens, you might be asked to leave, or might be taken virtually hostage until the lock down is over.

8. The Notary must have full vision of the signer and the signer must appear before the Notary. It is okay if the signer is on the other side of a glass provided that direct communication is possible. In my opinion, the signers should be within about five feet of the Notary otherwise you cannot fulfill the “personal appearance” requirement of most Notary acts.

9. Power of Attorney documents are common documents to be notarize in a correctional facility. That document normally requires an Acknowledgment which is a common Notary act which just requires the signer to sign the document, and then sign a Notary journal (most states but not all states). The Notary would need to check whatever ID the inmate has available and enter that information into the journal.

10. You can find a Notary on 123notary.com to do your jail signing. It is best to bring cash, and pay the travel fee up front. Then pay waiting time and whatever fee there is per signature after the work is done. Each Notary has their own fee and method of collecting their fee. Paying in two stages makes it easier for the Notary as some people try to get out of paying the Notary at all if there is any type of problem getting the inmate to come to the visiting room or sign, or be identified.

You might also like:

See our Jail Notary string
http://blog.123notary.com/?tag=jail-notary

A guide to notarizing for prison inmates
https://www.nationalnotary.org/notary-bulletin/blog/2016/07/guide-notarizing-for-prison-inmates

Jail notarizations forum string
http://www.notaryrotary.com/archive/forum/2009/March/Jail_Notarizations.html

Jail signing information
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/notary-jail-signing-information-susana-landa

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October 13, 2016

Notarization done at jail for vehicle release rejected at the Police station because Notary #1 used the wrong ack!

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings — Tags: , , — admin @ 11:32 pm

How is this possible? How can you use a wrong Acknowledgment? I heard this story from a Notary Public in some other state. But, what was wrong with the Acknowledgment? Was it from the wrong state? Was it filled out improperly? Or was the Acknowledgment labeled for a different document? I guess the Police don’t miss anything. In any case, if you are notarizing for a document that is to be submitted to a government authority, don’t miss anything, and make sure your stamp impression is clear as a bell.

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When to ask for ID over the phone & fees at the door
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=15282

7 steps for jail notarizations
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=8634

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August 16, 2016

Hospital Notary Jobs

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings,Ken Edelstein — Tags: , , , , , — admin @ 10:55 am

Hospital Notary Jobs

Hospital visits present the greatest personal risk, even greater than jail visits. When you visit a prison the staff knows your personal safety is their responsibility. At a hospital you are virtually ignored. The passing of infections is an obvious key issue; both ways. If you have the slightest contagious aliment it’s best to avoid hospitals. Two main reasons: your personal defenses are reduced, and you can infect a patient, potentially with dire consequences. Most of the NY hospitals that I go to have both facemasks and hand sanitizer at the entrance. Use both, also press the elevator button with a pen; generally avoid touching things. If you ask someone they will usually give you a pair of thin rubber gloves – additional protection.

Hospital visits should always be prepaid. You should stress the potential problems and frankly inform your caller that the risks are theirs. Your fee is earned when you to go to the facility and notarize if you are permitted to do so. There may be objections by the facility, ID issues, access limitations, ability to sign, ability to understand, etc. There is a good chance your client will be named as Agent on a Power of Attorney. Persons obtaining POA authority are quite willing to pay mobile notary fees; and have a great interest in obtaining the notarized document. Though their interest is irrelevant to your go/nogo decision; it’s worth mentioning. The majority of hospital POA jobs are, in my experience; for loving, concerned relatives who want to help. Of course some wish to exploit the afflicted – it’s virtually impossible to derive their true motivation.

But, your job is to notarize, if you feel doing so would be morally and legally proper. Hmmmm, just where did morally enter into the law? There are (at least in NY State) some “judgment call” aspects. Do I feel that the affiant understands the document and consents to it? Did the ID meet the standard of “adequate proof” – perhaps the photo on the license was a long time ago. Let’s continue with your approval of the situation.

You don’t know and will not be told what their affliction is. Sometimes there will be a “facemasks required” sign on the door. You should be wearing your facemask during every visit. Also take care about having the patient use your pen. Consider leaving it in the room, or at least giving it a good wipe with the hand sanitizer, there are usually several on each floor. Usually someone else is in the room. Show them where the patient needs to sign and stay a few feet away. But, you still need to witness signing a Jurat and need to administer an oath. They can bring the document to the patient while you observe. Just be sure that “they” do not sign for the patient!

Back to your fee. Some make payment on the web site with a credit card. Others prefer to pay with cash. Cash should be collected in the lobby if possible, or call your client out of the room and settle the finances first. Recall that you carefully covered all of the possible impediments to being able to notarize. Your “payment first” policy should have been carefully covered by phone prior to any travel, when accepting the assignment. Similar to prisons, things tend to move slowly in a hospital. You may have to wait while bedding is changed, test administered, etc. My basic notary fee at a hospital is half again what the fee would be for an office or home visit. Stress openly and honestly that all “risk” is on their side – you will do the job if conditions warrant, and total legality.

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When to ask for ID over the phone & fees at the door
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Hospital Signings
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=3764

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November 3, 2015

When to ask for ID over the phone & fees at the door

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings — Tags: , , , — admin @ 12:31 am

Many Notaries just don’t learn to be business-like. You have to get burned a dozen or more times to snap out of it. If you do notarizations at a hospital or for the elderly, they rarely have a current ID. If they do, then they can’t find it. In general, when you do notarizations, you need to verify that the signer has ID. Unfortunately, if you do hospital jobs, the daughter will insist that mom has her ID. When you ask for them to read the ID number to you over the phone they quickly discover that they have no IDea where the ID is. Hmmm. Have them call you back with the serial number and most important — the expiration date. If the expiration date is from 1964 you will not be able to notarize — sorry!

Then, there are the hospital visits that end prematurely because the signer was just drugged by the nurse. It is not legal to notarize someone who doesn’t know which end is up. So, if you notarize for folks in hospitals, tell them that you will cancel the notarization if the signer is drugged or not able to communicate in an intelligent way (or hold a pen.) However, the party involved might not want to pay you after your 45 minute drive since you “didn’t do anything!” But, I drove here you exclaim!

Get your travel fees at the door. Explain when you book the appointment for a hospital, office or jail that you need your travel fee at the door and waiting time. People in Law Offices are never ready on time. They will hold you hostage for two hours without a second thought. They value their own time and not anyone else’s. In fact , their entire business model is based on making everyone else wait for them. So, make them pay for your time.

$40 to $80 travel fee at the door in cash. Sorry, but nine states have restrictions on travel fees which is not constitutional.
Jail and hospital jobs take longer by definition and should have a higher travel fee. Office and home visits are normally fast unless you are dealing with Attorneys who make you wait.
$20 waiting time the minute twenty minutes elapse, and every twenty minutes after before the signatures and ID’s are ready.
$? per signature depending on what your state allows.

So, you walk in the door. Before you see the signer, or any hospital rooms or jail cells you get your $40. Don’t pass go, don’t collect $200, rather, collect your $40 before you even go in the building. Then, you proceed to wherever you are lead. In a jail, you might have to fill out forms and wait in the waiting room. In a hospital you go up to the room and then there will be a twenty minute conversation about, “How are you feeling, and do you think you are up to sitting up?” The conversation always lasts for at least ten minutes before the topic of the Notary being there and please sit up and sign something starts. The Notary’s time is taken for granted at 90% of hospital Notary jobs which is why you charge a waiting fee. At $1 per minute people will either not hire you, or treat your time (and possibly you) with respect.

In the event that your prison inmate has been transferred, escaped, or is in lock down, you will be happy you got your $40 travel fee. For jails, I recommend charging $80 to $120 travel fee. You might get stood up, and there is a lot that can go wrong. Please read our blog’s other articles on jail signings to be a pro at dealing with cons!

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Fees at the door misunderstood on Facebook
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July 17, 2012

Fees at the door MISUNDERSTOOD on Facebook

Filed under: Business Tips,Hospital & Jail Signings,Tips for Getting Paid — Tags: , , — admin @ 7:22 am

Fees at the door MISUNDERSTOOD on facebook 

Tisk tisk: notaries on Facebook.  You mostly misunderstood my discussion question about getting fees at the door for signings to prevent beneficial interest. this discussion took place in Jan 2012. I was NOT talking about loan signings.  At Loan signings they pay you three or four months AFTER the signing if you are lucky, not in cash at the signing. It is very obvious that I was talking about doing a traveling notary job for an individual person.  The problem is that most of you depend solely on loan signings for your living when there are many jobs for individuals which you either don’t know how to handle or reject because you are not familiar with it.
 

A typical botched jail notary job
Let’s say you drive 45 minutes to a jail to meet the girlfriend of a criminal.  You meet her in the parking lot or in the front door of the jail.  Let’s say you don’t collect your travel fee of $50 at the door.  Let’s say that hypothetically you walk to the guard, fill out the forms, but lo and behold, the prisoner has been moved to another jail 90 miles away.  Then you say, may I have my travel fee please.  The girlfriend says, “BUT YOU DIDN’T DO ANYTHING”.  And then you say, “Sure I did, I drove 45 minutes, talked to you on the phone, walked in here, and now I have to drive 45 minutes back home, and also go to the gas station which takes more time and money.  Pay up!!!  You will get stiffed, because they will feel that they do not owe you if you didn’t quote unquote DO ANYTHING. 
 

Yet another hospital notary job
Let’s say you drive an hour to a hospital at 3am to accommodate some desperate people.  You don’t get your travel fee at the door in cash like I recommend.  You go upstairs with the signer’s son in law only to find that the signer is on morphene, fast asleep, and in no position to sign anything or even sit up.  You ask for your travel fee for your 2 hour round trip, and the son in law says, “Sorry, but I’ll pay you when you come back next time, I didn’t realize that the nurse drugged Shelly’s dad”.  You just got stiffed again.
 
This isn’t rocket science. If you work with the public, they will leave you high and dry if you don’t protect yourself.
 
3rd example… beneficial interest
Lets say you go to a notary job.  You do NOT collect travel fees up front. Let’s say that the signer’s name on their ID doesn’t match the name on the document enough for you to legally or ethically notarize them.  They say, “Oh come on — you are being unreasonable”.  They say they won’t pay you a penny unless you notarize the signer. They have you by the balls because you didn’t think ahead.  If you have the travel fee up front, then you are in control and will not be persuaded under duress to break the law so you can get your lousy fee!
 
Last example:  The law office.
You are called into a law office 10 minutes away. You are instructed to show up at 1pm for a signing. Your trip fee is $30 and your waiting time fee is $20 per half hour with the first ten minutes complementary.  Let’s say that you never collected your $30.  The attorney says they won’t be ready for another 10 minutes.  But, 10 becomes 20, and 20 becomes an hour, and then finally after 90 minutes, you finally do the signing, and then they pay you, but they won’t pay for the waiting time.  If you had gotten your $30 at the door, you could threaten to leave if they don’t pay the wait time up front for each 30 minute increment.  If you don’t have the trip fee, you have no leverage. This has happened half a dozen times to me in my notary career!

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Travel fees if nothing gets signed
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=22578

What are mobile notary fees?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=21383

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February 10, 2012

Power of Attorney at a nursing home

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings,Posts With Many Comments,SEO,Ultra-Popular — Tags: , , , , — admin @ 9:58 am

Power of Attorney signing at a Nursing Home
 
This was a signing that was doomed from the beginning. I was a relatively new notary, and hadn’t been burned enough to have any sense.  I was like the cat who hadn’t learned to be wary of crossing the road. On the other hand, during my childhood, we had a cat who regularly sat right on the yellow line in the middle of the road.  Let’s just say that she had a good sense of timing.  My timing unfortunately wasn’t so good this time, and neither was my judgement.
 
A call from a convalescent home
It was a call from a lady in her late fifties.  She seemed like a very normal person.  She was taking care of an elderly lady who had nobody.  Of course, when I got the call, I didn’t have the sense to ask who was going to pay me or how they were going to pay me. This job was so bizarre, that even the most experienced notary has probably never seen anything like it.  So, I went to the nursing home and went in the door.  This place was horrible.  People were screaming and moaning all the time.  Plus the stench was horrible. The nurses didn’t want to open the windows because they didn’t want bacteria coming in.  My news for them is that there would be more bacteria going out than in if they opened the window. 
 
A walk down the hallway.
“Help me…. help me…. will you help me?”.  An old bedridden lady wanted to be turned over. I am not skilled at pampering the elderly, and the nurses were ignoring these helpless victems.  A crazy old man tried to make conversation with me walking down the hall.  This hallway should be called the hall of desperation. I got to the correct room number finally. If only I had brought an oxygen tank so I wouldn’t have had to breath in there. The lady in her 50’s wanted me to have the elderly lady sign a power of attorney document. Neither one of them had a clue how these documents worked. They needed my help filling it out and I told them that I don’t offer legal advice.  So, I had to wait while these crazy ladies took thirty minutes to do what they should have had prepared long before they called me. I neglected to ask them if their document was complete by the way.
 
The finished power of attorney
They kept asking me what to do. I kept saying, “you need to talk to an attorney”. I asked them why they had me come all the way down there when they were not ready to sign a completed document.  I had to teach them what a grantor and grantee was.  I told them that in this other place, they should write what the powers the grantor is assigning to the attorney in fact (grantee).  That helped get them through this daunting task.   Finally, the document was done.  The old lady could hardly sit up, let alone write anything.  She wrote some chicken scratch which was not even ledgable. I had to do a signature by X with two subscribing witnesses with her.   Finally, we were done.

 The payment
The attorney in fact got out a checkbook and proceeded to pay me.  I said, that the check didn’t belong to her, but to the old lady.  The lady in her 50’s said that she had been granted the power to do financial transactions for the older lady and would use the old lady’s check book to write me a check.  I didn’t like this idea. I said that I wanted to be paid in cash please. Neither ladies had a dime on them. So, I took the check, and needless to say it bounced. 
 
Insist on cash
If you do a jail or hospital signing, you will be dealing with very unreliable people a very high percentage of the time. Get your travel fee upon walking in the door before you even meet the signer.  If for any reason you can not complete the signing, you at least have some cash in your pocket.  Knowing how to do a signing by X is a valuable skill that experienced notary publics use if you work with the elderly.

You might also like:

12 questions to ask at hospital notarizations
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20519

Rules for notarizing a bedridden person

Do you like your job? A major headache of a hospital job.

Dragging the person’s arm

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January 21, 2012

Rules for notarizing a bedridden person

Filed under: Hospital & Jail Signings,Posts With Many Comments,SEO — Tags: , , , , — admin @ 10:30 pm

Rules for notarizing a bedridden person
 
I have written a lot on this topic, and posts relating to this topic are in the hospital category on the right.  There are no special notary laws for notarizing a bedridden signer. However, there are a few important things to know that are common when notarizing hospitalized or bedridden or elderly signers.
 
The identification must be current
A few states allow an ID to have been issued five years before the date of the notarization, when the ID technically expires four years after it was issued.  However, elderly signers will commonly have an ID that was used between Christopher Columbus’ time and the French Revolution.  If you do a signing for an elderly person (or anyone else), make sure their identification is current before you drive to that location (if you are a mobile notary). 
 
The patient / bedridden person must be coherent and sober
It is common for nurses to drug a patient right before the notary arrives.  Unfortunately, it is not legal to notarize someone who is so out of it that they can’t think or function.  So, if you want that notarization to happen, put the morphine on hold for now! Keep the valium in it’s syringe for now!  Additionally, if the signer can not move their arm to sign, you have a problem. If the signer can not talk enough to acknowledge that they understand the document, you are in trouble too. 
 
Elderly people get scammed regularly – notaries beware!
Elderly people fall prey to all types of scams, and the “nice” people who you assume are the signer’s children could be scam artists who are conning the drugged patient into signing their assets away.  The notary will (could) end up in court if someone gets scammed, so beware, and make sure the signer knows what is going on — or you (the notary) will be very sorry when the justice system hijacks you for two weeks without pay a few months or years down the road. It is not worth it!

You might also like:

Power of Attorney at a nursing home
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2305

What is Signature by X or Signature by Mark?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2278

A tale of four Notaries at hospitals
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=463

30 Point course – hospital signings
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=14492

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