It never ceases to amaze me how many folks get into this business and don’t know ANYTHING about it. All folks seem to know is that someone came to their house with their loan paperwork and on the surface it looks easy enough and they burst out, “Hey, I could do this too! And then proceed to ask; “How do you get into this business?”. And they actually expect you to give them all the little details of the ends and outs of how to get into the business so they can TAKE all of your business. Never, once thinking that this might be improper because why would any of us really want to train our own competition? But some of us do (being nice and all that) but end up regretting it later due to our own demise.
I was reading a notary forum post about how easy we make it look and that we need to stop this because all we are doing is saturating our areas with more and more notaries. It’s all about supply and demand. Lets face it there is no real demand for us notaries in this profession. There is some work but it is being spread to thin and the pay is at an all time low. And those of us that have been in it awhile refuse to work for peanuts. Many have taken part time jobs to supplement there incomes. Many have just thrown in the towel altogether and moved on.
The other contributing factor in over-saturation is that you have several places that offer loan signing classes with no regard that they are consistently over saturating the market with notary signing agents that will NEVER see any work. Just this week alone I have spoken with notaries in various parts of the county that have been at it for months and still no work. Or if they do have any at all it is in limited supply and the pay is paltry to say the least.
Moral of the story is that you need to check out whether there is a real need for signing agents in YOUR area. And whether this is a professional you can grow and profit from BEFORE you lay out the cash to get started.
As I often do, I read the notary discussion boards. It’s often entertainenlightening and full of situations that we are faced with to deal with almost on a daily basis. Most of them you share personally with me but this was a new one. A few days ago, the topic was about a notary that had a document that had one signature but two notarizations on the same page; One, was an Acknowledgement and the other a Jurat. The notary choose to notarize only one (don’t know which one they choose and they shouldn’t have done this but that is another issue) and the underwriter rejected it and sent it back for completion of the other notarial certificate. It seems that they wanted BOTH the acknowledgement and the jurat completed. The notary said NO and stated that it was one signature per notarial certificate. And since they had only signed once she refused to notarize both. And, although it sounded about right because most of us feel that it is one signature per notarization. After all, that is how we charge clients. In this case the certificates are different. One requires a sworn oath to be given and the other is just an acknowledgment on the part of the signer. I still wondered about this. Where is written in anybodies handbook that states that you can’t do one signature and have two different type of notarial certificates?
In my opinion, It seems that the lender and/or title was covering there rear end. Perhaps they couldn’t choose so they just decided to put both.The problem would have been easy if they had the signer sign one for each certificate. What ever the case its a decision that you have to make. It seems the notaries are split on this. I personally have seen this a couple times and I just notarize both. And enter into my journal.The question is what would you do?
As a notary public myself, I can not tell you how many times I have heard, “Just shut up and do your job”. Other notaries over the years have expressed hearing the same. Usually, this will come form an uninformed loan officer or realtor. Or just someone that wants you to break the rules for them with little regard of the consequences for the notary. But what is more disheartening is when one notary says it to another.
I recently got a call from a notary friend who had such an experience. This notary was asked by a lender to notarize a document in a spousal state that the other spouse was instructed by the lender that they didn’t need to sign. My notary friend knew this was not legal and since she was aware of the law she refused to complete the assignment. The notary then reached out to one of her other notary friends, who told her to just ‘shut up’ and notarize the documents and also added for good measure; “Who do you think you are?”, ‘“You are just a notary?”. This upset my friend greatly, hence the call to me. I let her know immediately IMHO as far as I am concerned she had done the right thing.
Listen, we are government officials and IMHO, if we know something to be illegal (or unethical) you cannot in good conscience continue with the process of notarizing. We are supposed to be protecting the public. Not aiding and abedding folks trying to pull a fast one. And sadly, we eventually all come to realize, the mortgage industry is riddled with deceit and fraud. So, my rule of thumb is to think about how would I answer and defend my actions, if I were ever called to court and had to get on the stand and a judge asked me, if i knew something to be illegal, or unethical, how would I defend my actions?
And for another notary to insult another because they did what she/he thought or felt was right IMO was not fair. We are all responsible for our own actions. We all have to do what we feel is right and must be able to defend our actions if comes down to that. And for me the bottom line will be if I can live with what I have done and can I sleep at night.
I would love to hear with some of the rest of you feel about this.
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Got a call form a frantic notary that is in the mist of a seemingly nasty divorce. She has a question and it is obvious right away that she is clueless as to what her notary laws are. She states that she may be calling the wrong place but her husband has her seal. She also wants to know if she is still an active notary? I’m thinking; “Oh boy”. I told her first off lets address the fact that you should know that your seal an journali (if required or not to keep one) is to remain with YOU at ALL TIMES in a secure locked location and secondly, you should be fully aware whether your commission is active or not. I mean if she doesn’t know (besides the SOS who would know) And, I am sure they will think it odd of her to be asking. I can’t for the life of me understand why folks are so lax and nonchalant with their seals. The power of the seal is enormous. It can create havoc on peoples lives and cause many financial problems.
In my humble opinion, it seems to me that if you are going to take on such a responsibility being a notary public that you would try at the very least to learn everything you can about being a notary public for your state. There are what I call the ‘rules of engagement’ and one should do their best to know them. Once you become a notary public you are considered a government official and you need to know what you ‘can and cannot do’. There are rules to be followed and you should know them.
It really terrifies me that we have thousands of notaries throughout the county that have no clue of what they are doing. They just tell me that they want to make a quick buck, or its just a side hustle or I just what to do loans. There is way more to being a notary then making a fast buck, etc. There can be financial devastation to you and/or others if you don’t know what you are doing. If you mess up someones paperwork it will be on you. And if you leave your stamp just laying around ‘willy nilly and it is used for fraud god forbid that to, will be on you. So for her to leave her stamp with her soon to be ex-husband was IMO gross negligence and I told her so. I recommended that she contact her husband immediately and secure her seal and journal (if he had that as well).
Please folks read your handbooks and learn all you can. It’s WAY more to being a notary than making a fast buck or side money….
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Got a call today from a new notary in Texas with a question. The first thing I ask her was how long she had been a notary. She is brand new-only a couple of months. I let her know (just like everyone else) that she needs to know her notary laws. She was not aware that this was of the utmost importance but then none of the new notaries do. They are foccused on loan signing. Never realizing that without basic knowledge of their notary laws they will fail and make countless errors. Definitely not a good way to start a business. So while we were talking, another notary called in. I ask her to hold and answered the call. Ironically, it just so happened to be another notary also from Texas that had a question on how to fill out a notary acknowledgment. She tells me that she pulled an acknowledgment off the internet and was perplexed as to how to fill it out.
I let her know, I just so happened to have another notary from Texas on the phone and it might be a teaching moment for the both of them and would she mind if I merged her into our conversation since they both were new ( I assumed this based on the question she was asking) and from Texas. She readily agreed and I merged the calls. I introduced them to one another and then asked the notary who had the acknowledgment question to to proceed with her question.
The notary had received an assignment to print a 3-4 page document, travel to the signer, have him sign, notarize and scan back to the attorney for a fee of 80.00. (decent fee btw.) She completed the assignment but for some reason (it is not clear why) she gave the notarized page to the signer. When she returned home from the job she realized her error and proceeded to find an acknowledgment certificate online and was trying to fill it out. I asked he how long she had been a notary and she stated that she had been a notary sine 1988. No disrespect to her but I find that to be a little disingenuous and very hard to believe considering the circumstances. To be a notary that long you would know what to do.
First off why she gave the notary acknowledgement to the client speaks volumes on its own. This is a rookie move; a person who has no clue as to what they are doing. Secondly, to not know how to fill out the notarial section is another rookie move. I told her that she should really consult her handbook as to what goes where. Hopefully, they address how to fill out a notarial certificate. I also let her know that she could take a picture of the acknowledgement and I would be more than happy to go through it with her. However, her best option would be to get off the phone with me and call the signer and go back and get the original acknowledgment certificate she had left with him. As of this writing, I have not heard back from her. Hopefully, for her sake, she got it all figured out.
The other notary remained silent until I let the other notary go. And she too now understood that she was also in the same position. She knows nothing about where to put what on a notarial certificate or just being a notary in general. I told her to also try and find a notary class and read her handbook cover to cover. Learn it-know it. If you are good notary you will be a great signing agent. After all the whole reason you would be called on to do closing/signings in the first place starts with you being a commissioned notary for your state. And guess what, they expect you to know your job. PERIOD. If you don’t know what you are doing you are just asking for trouble. So read and learn up like your life depended on it. Because guess what- it does.
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Do your research FIRST before you buy anything.
Know the ends and outs of the notary business that you are trying to undertake.
know the difference between a notary and a signing agent. These are 2 different hats that can conflict with each other
Know what is expected of you.
Know how many notaries in your area.
Try to find out if they are busy.
Find answers to the following questions:
Is there any work in your area?
How do I get the work?
How much money will it cost me to get started?
What supplies and hardware do I need?
What license or insurance do I need?
How long will it take me to make a profit?
You cannot listen to folks who are selling classes. They have one objective-sell you their course. They will tell you what you what to hear. Keep in mind it takes quite a white to build a successful notary business. You need to market, market and market some more.
2. Make sure you know YOUR states notary laws; cold. This is of the utmost important. This knowledge is what will keep you out of
trouble. And it is far more important than loan signing. If you are a great notary you will be an exceptional signing agent.
Know what ID is acceptable in YOUR state. What to do if they don’t have acceptable ID. What if it is expired? Can you still use it?
Where to place your seal.
When can you use credible witnesses? and why would you use them?. What are they and how many do you need in your state?
Who’s sole responsibility is it to fix a notarial certificate?
When is it a must that you change the venue? Do you even know what a venue is?
Who’s responsibility is it to initial these changes?
Can you use another states notarial certificate? And if yes when?
When are you supposed to give an oath?
These two things seem to be the most the notaries argue about;
Notaries continue to argue about whether they can use another states acknowledgement or not.
They consiisting argue about making changes to the documents.
Who’s sole responsibility is it to fix a notarial certificate?
Who’s responsibility is it to initial certain changes on the notarial certificate?
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I was speaking with one of my notary colleagues and I don’t know how the topic of journals came up but it did. This notary lives and works in Florida and they are not required to keep a journal but he does. He says that he always has since day one. He says that it has saved him on more than one occasion.
He shared with me a couple of incidents that he felt have saved him from wasted time, lawsuits and lawyer fees. After a 5 year old notarization, he received a call from an attorney that wanted to know if he remembered notarizing for a Haitian woman whom he had met with. Typically he doesn’t remember them after a few years but he did remember her. The lawyer went on to tell him that the woman had since passed and the son was contesting the POA he had notarized, He said that his mother would not have signed such a document. It seems she had given one of the other sibling POA and this angered him. So, the notary found the journal entry, made a copy and sent to the attorney and that was the end of it. He never heard from him again.
On another occasion he actually received a subpoena and had to actually appear in court. It seems this was around the time of option arm loans and subprime. In any case, the signers of the loan were claiming fraud on the lenders part. Because no-one is required in Florida to keep a journal he was not asked for a journal entry. However, on the day of his court appearance he brought along his journal. Upon taking the stand to be questioned, he mentioned to the judge that not only did they appear before him and indeed sign the loan documents, he had journal entries along with thumbprints to prove it. The judge looked at the journal and in annoyance banged his gavel and said case dismissed. Pay your bills he directed to the borrower/signers.
Now think about this; what if in both these occasions he had not had a journal to prove that these people had met with him. Both these cases had the potential to drag on for weeks perhaps even months.
So moral of the story, PLEASE keep a journal for your own (and others) protection. For most states this is not a requirement. And, if your are precluded/prohibited form keeping one (Texas comes to mind) then by all means follow the rules/laws of your state. But for the rest of you that have no such restriction please keep a journal. It is so worth the extra effort. The benefits for out weigh the expense (buying journals) and the extra time required too fill them out. A journal could save your life…..
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I am posed with questions concerning this document quite often. So let me tell what it is and what it isn’t. For those of you that are unfamiliar; this document is one of the documents found in 95% of all of loan packages.
The signature name affidavit represent names that have appeared on an individuals credit report(s). When a person applies for a loan, the lender runs a persons credit using all 3 of the credit bureaus (Experian, TransUnion and Equifax). These reports will usually include all of the names an individual has used in their lifetime; examples would be; marriages, maiden and name given at birth. The signers are required by the lender to sign the form and the form typically needs to be notarized.
At other times there will be clerical errors consisting of misspelled names and occasionally where the names are quite different. Sometimes in the case of the latter the signers will have an objection to signing the form and one can hardly blame them. So, if the signers have an objection to signing a name that is not their own, I have them strike it and initial. To date that has been acceptable and I haven’t had a document returned because of this action. (I suggest however, that you always bring this to the attention the company (or person) that hired you while-at the signing table if it is an issue. Never take matters into your own hands. ALWAYS ask).
There will be other times when the ID doesn’t match the documents exactly; say for example, a middle name is missing or the maiden was used previously and now they are married but they have no ID with these variations, you may be asked to add this name variation to the signature name affidavit in lieu of having ID. This is a big NO.NO. We must have current government issued picture ID. (or credible witnesses if they are allowed in your state). You CANNOT add names to the signature name affidavit that you DON’T have ID for. This is fraud and you will be on BIG trouble, if it ever comes up in an investigation or court case. I hear notary excuses; “But Carmen, they swore to me that that was their name.” Not good enough. Just imagine how this would appear to law enforcement or a judge. You must protect yourself and the signer. If you unfortunately find yourself in this situation always ask the signers if they have other acceptable ID that has all their names on it or use credible witness if allowed.
Now, I have actually added names to the signature name affidavit that I had ID for, but that is another blog story. 🙂
Until next time, be safe!
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For the last 3 or so months I have started receiving several calls a week from folks looking for contact information on various signing companies due to non payment. These notaries are searching on Google because the contact information they have on there work orders seem to be no longer accurate. They’re emails to the companies go un-answered or they just don’t answer the phone. I suspect that these companies are blocking and/or ignoring them. So after the notaries have exhausted all attempts to find these deadbeat signing services (with no luck) they end up calling 123 for help.
Here is what I advise; please always keep the title/escrow and lenders contact numbers. If you have exhausted all your efforts with the signing service, then your last resort is to let the title, escrow and/or lender know that the company that they are using is not paying you. They will not be happy about this. If they have been bombarded with collection calls they may rethink their relationship with the signing service. You just might get a direct client out of the deal. Unfortunately for us, the only sure way of always getting paid is to get paid upfront. But of course this will never happen. Our profession is just not designed this way. Since our (in addition to other) fees come directly from the borrowers settlement costs we typically have to wait until the loan closes to be paid. What a bummer!
The next natural questions notaries ask are; “ How do they get away with this?” and “How do they stay in business?” and last but not least, “What can be done about this?”. The best way to solve these problems would be for us to just stop working with them. But that is not is going to happen. Most notaries come into this business not having a clue how things truly work. They are just anxious to get some assignments and get to making some money. These companies know this and take advantage. The new notaries also are not aware that there are resources (123notary and notary rotary, etc.) for them to check these folks out BEFORE you do the job. Keep in mind signing services ARE NOT regulated. Anyone can start one. You must protect yourself from these wolves in sheep clothing. Do your research on each company that you work with; preferably before you print those doc’s.
These non payment issues are what happen when the signing companies come in with no capitol, start making money and when the business starts to slow down (which it often does) they start not paying. They will use your money to pay their bills. And once they get so far behind it is almost impossible to catch up. Unfortunately, they keep on using notaries; robbing Peter to pay Paul and they just get further and further behind. And because there is always a ton of fresh new notaries coming into the profession these companies never run out of new notaries to exploit and this cycle just repeats itself.
So, please make sure that you post these non payment issues on the notary boards and forums so others can be for warned. And so your do diligence and check these companies out! No exceptions!
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It never ceases to amaze me how many folks get into this business and don’t know ANYTHING about it. All folks seem to know is that someone came to their house with their loan paperwork and it looks easy enough and they burst out, “Hey, I could do this too! And then proceed to ask; “How do you get into this business?’. And they actually expect you to give them all the little details of the ends and outs of how to get into the business so they can TAKE all of your business. Never, once thinking that this might be improper because why would any of us really want to train our own competition? But some of us do (being nice and all that) but end up regretting it later due to our own demise.
Recently, I was reading a notary forum post about how easy we make it look and that we need to stop this immediately because all we are doing is saturating our areas with more and more notaries that are really not needed. It’s all about supply and demand. Unfortunately, at the time of me writing this there is no real demand for us notaries in this profession. Up until recently rates were steadily going up (went down a little as the writing of this blog) and the real estate markets seem to currently be a little sluggish. But none of this stops the constant flow of signing agents still flocking to the business like fly’s on you know what.
The other contributing factor in over saturation is that you have several places that offer loan signing classes with no regard that they are consistently over saturating the market with notary signing agents that will NEVER see any meaningful work. Just this week alone, I have spoken with a few notaries in various parts of the county that have been at it for months but still no work. Or if they do have any at all it is in limited supply. And the fees are paltry at best. I mean who wants to do a full loan package with scan backs for 65.00??? Please try NOT accept these low fees. It hurts us all.
A piece of advice, you must do your research BEFORE you jump into this profession. Don’t just jump in without knowing what you are getting into first. Check the number of notaries in your area. It might be worthwhile to join some facebook groups and read our forum here at 123notary.com as well as Notary Notary to gain some prospective on the business. There is WAY more to being a notary signing agent than meets the eye.
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