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November 8, 2018

Fixing certificates is a state specific nightmarish issue

Filed under: Technical & Legal — admin @ 11:44 am

I like to ask people questions about what to do if a certificate is wrong and you are asked to notarize using that certificate. The problem is that different states handle this differently.

MD does not allow a Notary to add a certificate — period.

CA does not allow Notaries to fix certificates. You have to start the procedure all over if there is any mistake.

OR does not allow Notaries to play Attorney and make decisions as to what can be crossed out, or added, so in Oregon a notary really has their hands (and stamps) tied.

There might be other states with odd rules about fixing errors, but those are the ones that stand out. Making changes to Notary certificates looks like tampering and could cause a nightmare in court. Adding new certificates can raise recording costs and alter the information on the HUD. You are damned either way. So, learn to deal with these issues without getting in trouble with your state.

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September 9, 2018

Index of posts about Notary Certificates

Here is a quick index of our posts about notary certificates. I hope it is useful. They are in order of how useful the posts are rather than chronological order.

Notary Public 101 — certificates
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19502

10 tight points on loose certificates
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=15449

Do you notarize loose certificates as a Notary?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=10372

What is a venue in a Notary certificate?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=8454

What forms should a Notary keep in his/her bag?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20011

Optional information in acknowledgment certificates
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=4407

Sending loose certificates in the mail is illegal.
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2470

Notary Certificate Wording section by section
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18915

Signing Agent Best Practices 63 Points
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=4315

Notary Certificates, Wording & Notary Verbiage
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1834

Make your own Notary certificate forms.
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1759

Notary Acknowledgment Wording
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18858

Can you send a loose acknowledgment, you should hear the answers
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=16168

Marcy Attaches a certificate (educational comedy)
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=14447

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October 17, 2017

Notary Public 101 — Certificates

Return to table of contents for Notary Public 101.

You might also like: 10 tight points on loose certificates.

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NOTARIAL CERTIFICATES

There are certificates for various types of Notary acts. Acknowledgments, Jurats, Proofs of Execution. Some states even have certificates for Oaths and Affirmations. Let’s focus on Acknowledgment Certificates for now.

There are various parts of an Acknowledgment form.

(1) The venue. The venue is normally on the upper part of a certificate. In California now there is some verbiage in a box that I am not trained in. But, above the boiler plate wording there is a venue which documents the county and state. Is a venue the county where you did a transaction or two lines of information in a form? Both! However, the documentation of the venue is the one in the certificate and it is informally called the venue and not the documentation of the venue.

(2) The date. The date is a field the Notary is often held responsible to fill in. The date falls into the area of the boiler-plate wording of the form which is standardized wording from your state or perhaps another state.

(3) The names of the signers. As a Notary, you need to input the names of the signers or affiants into the Notary certificate if required. Sometimes it doesn’t make it clear whose name goes in the form. If it says, “Subscribed and sworn to before me by,” then after the “by” put the name of the affiant or signer otherwise you will ruin the form.

(4) The name of the Notary. The name of the Notary once again is entered into the boiler-plate wording area.

(5) Pronouns, singulars and plurals. Each state has a different wording for Notary certificates for each act. However, it is common and typical to have some sort of Notary verbiage that includes he/she/they executed the instrument, his/her/their signature(s), or his/her/their authorized capacity(ies). The critical thing here is to cross out the incorrect words and leave the correct wording. If you do a notarization for John, then cross out the her and their and the (s) assuming John only signed once. If you do a signing for Bruce Jenner then use a special form called the T-acknowledgment which says he/she/it’s complicated/they

(6) Testimonium Clause. Where it says “witness my hand and official seal,” that is called the testimonium clause. Below the boiler plate wording is the signature area where you sign and then affix your notarial seal. And by the way, “Locus Sigilli” means the location of the seal.

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CHANGES TO CERTIFICATES

Making any change on a Notary certificate is messy in my opinion. You can consider crossing out and initialing wrong information. Remember that ONLY the Notary can initial or write on the certificate forms and the signer cannot touch it. However, it is cleaner to create a new certificate using an Acknowledgment that you get from a pad that you keep your Notary bag. That way you can start all over, fill the form out correctly and then staple it to the document in question.

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ADDING LOOSE CERTIFICATES

If you notarize a document that either does not have acceptable Notary wording or doesn’t have any Notary wording (or wrong information on the form) then you might want to add a loose certificate from your pad of certificates that you purchased from the NNA (recommended). Additionally, if there is no room for your seal in some pre-existing Notary verbiage, you might be forced to add a certificate for logistical reasons.

You might also like this blog article:
Sending loose certificates in the mail is generally illegal!

If you add a loose certificate, the certificate must be filled out thoroughly. This means that in addition to the legally required verbiage, you fill out the ADDITIONAL INFORMATION section. The additional information section includes:

Document name — if you don’t put the name of the document on your loose certificate, it might be unstapled and added to a wrong document by accident or on purposes.

Document date — if you don’t put the document date, your certificate might be added to a different document with the same name by accident or fraudulently.

Number of Pages — if you put nine pages, then it will be hard for a fraud to swap the certificate and put it on a similar document with eight pages.

Other Signers — You can name the other signers on the document.

Capacities — California no longer allows this, but you can mention if any of the signers are signing as Attorney in Fact or some other capacity.

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EMBOSSERS

Cautious Notaries often use an embosser when notarizing. You can use an inked seal and also a non-ink embosser that leaves a raised seal. If someone photo copies your certificates, the embossed impression will not show up in the photocopy. Additionally, you can emboss each page of a document to discourage page swapping.

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AUTHORITY

If there is a disagreement between a Title company involved in a transaction and a Notary regarding what venue or information goes in an Acknowledgment or Jurat certificate, the Notary has absolute authority. The Notary may ask for the Title company’s preference if there are two legal ways of doing something such as crossing out and initialing vs. adding on a loose certificate if there is an error. However, it is the Notary who is legally responsible for filling out the form and it is the Notary who will end up in court if there is a problem.

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WHO TO ASK FOR HELP WITH CERTIFICATES

If the Notary does not know what to do when filling in forms or notarizing, do NOT ask the Lender or Title companies as they have a beneficial interest in the transaction AND because they are not experts in the field. The tiel rep might be a Notary, but not necessarily in your state, and not necessarily an informed Notary. Title and Lenders will typically tell you whatever it takes to get the job done whether it is legal, recommendable, safe, or kosher, or not. They don’t care just as long as their loan goes through and YOU, the Notary are the one who gets locked up if you did something illegal just as long as it is your seal on the page.

If you need help with a Notary problem, consult your state’s Notary division as a first resource and the NNA hotline as your next resource. I would be very wary about trusting anyone else.

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July 26, 2015

10 tight points on Loose certificates

I have not written about this topic for a long time because I take for granted that Notaries are experts on the topic. In real life, it is possible that many Notaries do not know how what to do with a loose certificate. So, here are the correct steps to take.

(1) Purchase Certificate Pads from the NNA
Why the NNA? In my experience, they are the best source of 1-stop shopping for Notary supplies. They have great journals and pads. You cannot attach a loose certificate if you don’t have one, so keep them in stock and guard them with your life. Your career as a Notary rests on having the correct forms. You need Acknowledgment Forms, Jurat forms, and perhaps Copy Certificate by Document Custodian forms. Make sure the wording is acceptable according to the current laws of your state!

(2) Keep the Pads in your Notary Bag
Having the right forms is no good if you don’t keep them with you. Clients don’t want to hear the old, “I left it at home” routine. It sounds like your dog ate it. We are not in junior high anymore! Keep your law primers, journal, pads, seal, and anything else you need on you at all times and remember to keep your journal and seal under lock and key when not in use!

(3) When to use Loose Acknowledgments
If you need to notarize a document and the document doesn’t have notorial wording, it is time to use a loose certificate! If a document has incorrect notary wording for your state, you need to consult your state laws to see if they will allow out of state wording. Most states will allow out of state wording providing that the wording isn’t substantially different. If the venue or the name of the signer(s) is wrong or has an extra signer, or leaves the name of a signer out — you might want to attach a loose form.

Also See: Do you Notarize loose certificates as a Notary?

(4) Fill Out the Form
Filling out forms is not rocket science, but more than 50% of notaries omit crossing out the he/she/they and the capacity(ies), etc. If Joe signed the document, then cross out the she/they unless you know more about Joe than we do. You might cross ou the (ies) too. Don’t forget to fill out the venue, stamp, and sign the form. If your state doesn’t require a stamp, consider moving to a better state!

(5) If the Glove Don’t Match, you Must Attach!
Certificate forms must be attached to corresponding documents by law in many states. This means by staple, otherwise it will most likely be detached which could lead to a lot of confusion and potentially to law suits. You should also indicate the document name, date and length on the certificate as well as any other pertinent and identifying information about the document just in case the certificate gets separated. Many Title companies detach certificates which is completely illegal, but they don’t care because they are above the law — or think they are — or never got caught — yet…

(6) NEVER Send a Loose Jurat in the Mail
You can go to jail and lose your commission if you send a loose certificate in the mail. Lenders often ask you to just send a loose “Jurat” in the mail if the one you sent is not acceptable for one reason or another. You can request that the original document is sent back to you. That way you can destroy the original Acknowledgment or Jurat and add another one and staple it to the document. If you send a loose one, it could be attached to a different document and used for fraud, and you might end up in court.

(7) Some People Create Their Own
Some notaries who are penny foolish create their own Acknowledgment pads. You could put company branding on it to gain attention for your company. Just make sure you don’t goof as this is a legal document.

(8) Thumbprints?
Most Notaries only put thumbprints in their journals if they thumbprint at all. But, the NNA’s certificates have, or used to have (I’ve been out of the loop for a while) room for thumbprints. It looks more official for really critical documents if you get that extra thumbprint. For documents going overseas, I recommend this as foreigners think you are the best Notary in town if you give thumbprints — and embossing looks really official too!

(9) Two Certificates?
Sometimes you might need to attach multiple certificates for a single document. This is fine. One for his, and one for hers. They might even be notarized at different times. The custodian or recipient of the document might or might not like that, but it is all perfectly legal! You might have a lot of staples if you attach them at different times, but that is how the Notary business works.

(10) Jurats with Oaths
Sometimes if you are administering an Oath on a short statement, you can write the statement right on the Jurat form. In this case, you don’t need to staple the form to a document as the form includes the contents of the document as well as the Notarization. Don’t forget to have them raise their right hands and swear under Oath!

You might also like:

2014 excerpts from great notes sections
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=13613

Sending loose certificates is illegal
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2470

What goes where in your notes section?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1076

What is so critical about crossing out he/she/they?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=22223

Can a notary sign on a different day?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=22084

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December 23, 2014

Do you notarize loose certificates as a notary?

… Are we both on the same page here?

Staple it please…
I was reading a discussion on one of the notary forums. They were talking about whether or not you can notarize loose certificates as a notary. The answer is that a notary certificate needs to be either embedded in a document (meaning that the wording is typed in a document below the body of the document,) or attached to the document with a staple.

What is a certificate?
Just to clarify, a notary certificate is a piece of paper with notarial wording on it. It might be an Acknowledgment Certificate or a Jurat. There are other types too such as Copy Certification by Document Custodian in California and other particular states. These certificates are commonly referred to as Jurats, although they are technically not necessarily Jurats as most of them are Acknowledgments.

What can happen if you don’t?
A loose certificate can easily be attached to a different document by accident or on purpose. Imagine that you notarize a Power of Attorney for someone who had several powers of attorney notaries. The wrong certificate could be added to a different Power of Attorney. In a more serious case, they might be attached to a document signed by a completely different person. Such a mistake can be easily caught, but imagine the trouble that might ensue if nobody saw the mistake!

Additional notes & thumbprints are prudent
Just to be on the safe side, it is prudent to put additional information in the certificate such as how many pages the document has, the document name and document date (if any; and which might differ from the signature date,) the capacity of the signer (not allowed to be verified by the notary in particular states,) and more! Some certificate forms even allow a designated spot for a thumbprint which I always used for international documents just to keep people out of trouble — and the foreign government workers told my clients that they appreciated the extra effort!

“…. see attached”

Illegal requests
Many companies in the loan signing business will be in a hurry to get a new “Jurat” for a notarized document if the seal was smudgy, or if they needed to have a new version of the document drafted and signed. They will commonly ask you to mail it to them which is completely illegal. You will be pressured to do so or the loan might not fund. Don’t cave into the pressure. It is your job to uphold the law no matter what horrible consequences come to your clients. Ask for the original document back, and then staple the new certificate form to the document and send it back after destroying the original certificate form. There is nothing illegal about doing a second certificate for a legitimately notarized document providing that the initial one isn’t left hanging around! Additionally, you might inform these Title company workers that their request was illegal and if they make any other illegal requests, you will report them to their state’s secretary of state! Maybe better wait until the second offense so you don’t lose the client. But, if you tolerate illegal requests, you will be encouraging the perpetrators to do it to other unsuspecting notaries who might cave in and get themselves in hot water with the state! (gulp)

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You might also like:
10 tight points on loose certificates
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=15449

Sending loose certificates is illegal!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2470

Signing agent best practices: 63 points
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=4315

Notary certificates, notary wording & notary verbiage
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1834

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April 23, 2012

Sending loose certificates is illegal

Sending loose certificates is illegal! 

People who work at Title companies are notorious for breaking the law in so many ways.  Here are some common types of fraud that happen at Title companies daily:
(1) Many will deliberately and shamelessly forge initials when the borrower forgets to initial.  I’m not sure how bad of a crime this is, but I recommend against any type of forgery — no matter what! 
(2) Most will unstaple documents that have been stapled which makes the completed certificate which is attached (a legal requirement), no longer attached (illegal) and hence a loose certificate (gulp). I have had multiple Title companies complain to me that they didn’t like the industrial staples I used since they were so hard to unstaple.  They don’t have a legal right to unstaple those notarized documents because the certificate must stay attached.  Part of the problem with unattaching certificates, is that they could get reattached to some OTHER document creating confusion, havoc, and hence having a document notarized without having it presented to a notary public and going through the procedure and journal entry.
(3) Many will ask a notary to send them a loose certificate if a document needs to be notarized again for some reason. Sometimes the seal was smudgy, or perhaps they needed to replace the document and get a new certificate for the new document with a new date.  If you are a “loose notary” who has a loose interpretation of notary law in your state, you might be breaking the law!
 
It all starts out with a pad of loose certificates!
You start out with our pad of loose acknowledgment certificates and jurat certificates.  Any serious notary will have this type of pad on hand as if their life depends on it.  Sure, the certificates are loose now, but that is okay, since they haven’t been filled out or stamped yet!  When you notarize a signature(s) on a document(s), you have the signer(s) signer the instrument, and then you have them sign your official journal of notarial acts.  Then, you fill out the certificate wording embedded in the document, or if that boiler plate wording isn’t there, you can add a certificate form which has the identical, or hopefully very similar boiler plate wording.  You fill out the form, cross you s’s, and dot your t’s, etc.  The minute you sign the certificate, and affix your official notary seal, then you may NOT let that certificate out of your site until it is ATTACHED to the corresponding document. It is illegal to unattach a certificate from a document, and very unkosher to unattach the staple for a notarized multipage document. What are your intentions?  Are you going to swap pages after the fact?  I can smell fraud a mile away!
 
What should you the notary do when asked to send a loose certificate?
It’s easy.  Someone at a Title company says they need a new Jurat certificate for the Affidavit of Domicile you notarized for them a week ago otherwise their loan won’t go through (pressure technique).  They want you to mail the loose certificate to them!  Tell them:
 
“No problem, just send me the document and the original certificate — I’ll shred the old certificate and add a new one… You can not have two certificates for the same document. The signer already signed the journal for this particular transaction and doesn’t need to sign it again for a certificate which is to be dated the same date they signed the journal.”
 
And they will say:

“Oh, come on, why does this have to be so difficult. That takes extra time and money.  Why can’t you just (break the law) and send us what we want (and risk your commission and risk being sent to jail or being fined perhaps more than $1000) for our convenience?”
 
And then you should say:

“If you need notaries to routinely break the law for your pleasure, you should ask your notaries some pre-screening questions.  Ask them if they are willing to break the law on a whim (your whim) and risk their commission and perhaps some jail time for your convenience. Ask them if they mind risking going to jail to save you from having to wait an additional 24 hours for a loose certificate… if they say ‘sure’, then they are the notary for you!”
 
My concluding advice
Don’t break the law for these rascals. They are not worth it.  You probably won’t get in trouble, but as a notary public, your position in society is to preserve integrity, and to safeguard transactions by making sure that the signer really signed the corresponding document in question.  If certificates get switched on documents due to fraud, or because you didn’t identify the document carefully enough on the certificate, then you are a liability to society and shouldn’t be a notary public. 
 
As a notary, you should be very sensitive to the fact that if you are notarizing multiple documents for a particular signer, those documents could get mixed up, and the signer could pull a fast one and reattach notary certificates from a document you really did notarize, to another similarly named document that you did not notarize. 
 
Multi-page documents can be taken apart and pages switched.  Title companies ROUTINELY take apart documents as a matter of standard procedure, and if you don’t emboss every page of everything you notarize, it would be easy for someone to replace page 5 with another similar looking page 5.  Assume that people are dishonest and shady, so that you can protect the virtue and integrity of your work. Document everything to a tee, and don’t give in to pressure to do illegal notary acts even if it means losing a client. You don’t want that client anyway in the long run — trust me!

You might also like:

10 tight points on loose certificates
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=15449

Signing agent best practices
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=4315

Notary Certificates, Notary Wording & Notary Verbiage
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1834

Make your own certificate forms
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1759

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November 26, 2011

Notary Certificates, Notary Wording & Notary Verbiage

Notary Certificates,  Notary Verbiage & Notary Wording

Notary terminology is sometimes confusing, so there are a few things to remember.  There are different types of common notarizations.  Acknowledgments and Jurats require certificate wording (notary wording), and Oaths and Affirmations could be purely verbal.  A Jurat requires that an Oath or Affirmation accompany the signing and certificate wording (notary wording, notary verbiage).  An Acknowledgment is purely paperwork in most cases, however, I have seen even an Acknowledged signature have an accompanying Oath.  80% of notarizations are Acknowledged signatures, while roughly 19% are Jurats, and the remaining 1% would be a mixture of other types of less common notary acts.
 
Acknowledged Signatures
The 2011 & 2012 notary certificate for an acknowledged signature includes a venue (documentation of county & state), the name of the notary, the name of the signer, the fact that the signer appeared before the notary and acknowledged signing a particular document.  The current notary verbiage on this form should include the date of the signing, and the signature and official seal of the notary as well.  The actual notary verbiage differs from state to state.  California notary verbiage is a bit different than Ohio notary verbiage.  Also, Ohio has different types of acknowledgments such as corporate acknowledgments and an attorney in fact acknowledgment.  You should ideally research your state’s notary verbiage to see what it is.  If you visit our find a notary page, there are links to states, and on the state pages, you can find a lot of information about acknowledgments and jurats in those states.  We have detailed information for Florida, Illinois, Michigan, California, Arizona, Ohio, and a few other states as well.
 
Jurat Signatures
The notary certificate for a jurat signature / oath has changed in many states. It is/was normal to have a venue, and then say, “Subscribed and sworn to before me (name of notary) by (name of signer) on (date).”  Then there would be a signature of the notary, and a place for the official notary seal.  Jurat verbiage also can differ from state to state so please look it up on google. 
 
Certificate forms.
Notary certificates can be notary wording / notary verbiage that is embedded on the last page of a document, or sometimes within a document if there are intermediary signatures.  If the notarial wording is NOT included, you must add a loose certificate and attach it to the document (by stapling). 
 
Filling out the forms.
Many notaries don’t understand how to fill out notary wording on certificate forms.  Let’s say a guy named Paul Solomon is the signer.  If the form says,
 
(note: this is not real Florida notary wording — I am making it up for educational purposes)
In real life, the Florida notary certificate is much simpler than this, but in other states there are cross outs that the notary needs to make. 
 
State of Florida
County of Brevard
On 8-11-2010 before me John Doe, notary public, the foregoing document was acknowledged before me by Paul Solomon, who acknowledges signing the document in his/her/their capacity(ies).
 
(notary seal)
 
In this example, it is the notary’s job to cross out the “her” and “their”, and the “ies” in capacities.  More than half of notarizations that I have seen were done by notaries who omitted to do the cross-outs.

You might also like:

Notary boiler plate wording
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2432

Notary Public 101 – a free notary course
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19493

Notary Verbiage & Notary Wording
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18854

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September 8, 2019

The Notary Pride Parade in West Hollywood

Filed under: Humorous Posts — admin @ 11:01 pm

We are having a Gay pride parade or event in West Hollywood. Lots of people were practically naked and the clubs were booked. You cannot drive through that area without huge traffic problems. A waiter asked if I was going and I said, “Hell no!” I don’t want to be molested. Gay people in this area tend to reach out and touch someone. Why can’t hot women be the same way? If we only lived in an ideal world.

But, I think that Notaries should have a Notary pride parade. Except the Notaries should not get naked please. Maybe if you are 20 years old and hot, but not the over 50 crowd please.

There could be a Notary float with a huge notary seal on it — inflatable.
Another float could have signatures hanging on it and off it.
A third float could have an embosser.
Other floats could have documents or certificates.

Notaries could dress up as notary seals or documents or signatures. It would be like Halloween — notary style.

Good God this sounds scary. I think I like it though. I just hope none of the signatures in the parade are false otherwise it would be a falsified parade. What do you guys think?

You might also like:

A bar only for cool notaries
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=22546

A Notary sees a UFO
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19929

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July 28, 2019

Perhaps Donald Trump will take Notary competency more seriously now that he is affected

Filed under: Notary Mistakes — admin @ 2:19 am

It is now being claimed that Trump never signed a non-disclosure agreement with Stormy Daniels. Due to a botched notarization done by a Notary who received little or no training, a very important business document is now null and void. For years, the various state notary divisions have allowed shoddy Notaries to represent 99.9% of the notary population, and do little or nothing to train or scrutinize them. California does the most, but still 70% of California Notaries that I test cannot and will not administer a correct sounding Oath nor do they think it is important.

The fact remains that if you don’t keep a proper journal, don’t give an Oath, or make a mess of your certificates, you can invalidate the legality of a very critical financial document and that is no joke. The government for decades has behaved like it doesn’t matter and that the Notary profession is one big joke where people should get paid pennies for their work.

Now that the most important man in America has gotten his fingers very badly burned by a typical Notary who was never scrutinized by her State of Texas (which is a state that not only doesn’t teach you how to be a good Notary but prohibits you from inscribing ID serial numbers or taking thumbprints which is the only sure fire way to know a person’s true identity.) The State of Texas allowed this Notary to practice, never checked up on her, and the result is that the President of the United States is now in a lot of trouble. Maybe I should write to Donald and let him know that Notary education is the secret to resolving this problem in the long run. What do you think he will think? I think someone or a lot of someones are about to be fired.

You might also like:

Trump’s trade war affects Notaries
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20497

Letter to Trump about the sad condition of American Notaries
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19403

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July 8, 2019

Looking Beyond the Notary Section – A case Example

Filed under: Ken Edelstein — Tags: , — admin @ 3:01 am

The classic examples
We are often told not to notarize a document that contains blank areas. Of course in reality we do exactly that in every loan package. Take a look at the 1003 (the computer version of the loan application). Lots of blank areas there and nary a single N/A. Once I was put on standby for many hours; to notarize the sale of a super tanker. The neatly bound document was thicker than the Manhattan phone book (alas no longer issued). It was about 1500 pages. I did not turn each page in a desperate attempt to find a wayward and un-entered fill in. After about 6 hours of waiting time, I notarized the (approx from recollection) two dozen affiants at the end.

What happened today
The document was an amendment to an incorporation agreement. There were to be eight affiants; even with the nicely preprinted notary sections it totaled four pages. Simple? Well there was an issue. Just prior to naming the trustees, there was the statement that the names and addresses of the trustees would follow. The names were there but not the addresses. I normally don’t read the documents, but wanted to be sure the list of names matched the notary sections. I mentioned the discrepancy to the person managing the signing. I was asked how this should be handled. I covered the I’m not a lawyer issue. They came up with three possible courses of action.

The first would be to simply write in the addresses. Second, would be to redact “and addresses”. The last was to simply ignore the matter. They choose option 2. So, when the “and addresses” had a line drawn thru (not at my suggestion), I felt compelled to raise the issue of the requirement to initial hand written changes.

The first two affiants had left the session after being properly notarized and were not present to initial the change. The other 5 initialed. Hmmmm, 8-2=5? Sorry, but one of the planned 8 could not attend and would be notarized at a later date, and also initial that redaction.

In all probability the infamous “fix it fairy” would provide initials for the two who left early; of course I did not suggest that. But, as unfair as it sounds to me; some were unhappy that I mentioned the discrepancy between the stated text and the data entered. In other words; it seemed to some that I “created a problem” – just by stating the obvious (to me) flaw.

In all probability I goofed In hindsight, as I peck away at the keyboard; away from the seven affiants who want me to resolve the “issue I created” – I shudda kept my big mouth shut. My biggest blunder was to agree on the 3 possible solutions. Perhaps the address is an absolute requirement for acceptance of the document. I truly don’t know. And, the only reason that I sailed into that blunder was by mentioning the issue.

Resolved: At least for me – if it’s not in the notary section, don’t read it, don’t comment on it. And absolutely say nothing about how they should proceed. It’s OK to mention initialing changes, but take no “legal opinion” about “course of action” when modifications are being considered.

You might also like:

Index of posts about Notary certificates
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20268

A guide to notarizing documents with blanks or multiple signatures
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20252

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