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April 10, 2018

Document dates, signature dates, rescission dates and transaction dates

As a Notary, you will undoubtedly be confronted with a variety of dates that all need to be clearly defined in conversation so as not to confuse yourself or the other party. Let me sum these up.

Document Dates
The document date is NOT necessarily the date the document is notarized. It is merely an arbitrary date normally created by the document drafter that might reflect the date the document was drafted, supposed to be signed, supposed to be notarized, or some other arbitrary date. There is no rule for when a document date can be.

Signature Dates
The signature date of a document is the date it was signed. If you have two signers signing on different dates, you might have what 123notary calls “a double date.” There are multiple questions involved in a double date. One is how do you date the rescission document if the date you signed a document is more than one date. The other far more important question is — who pays?

Rescission Dates
The rescission date is based on a date that comes CALENDAR three days after the transaction (= signature date) not including Sundays or Federal holidays. If you have two signature dates, you might have two rescission dates, one per person. But, if there is only one rescission date, it probably is based on the last signature (complicated.)

Transaction Dates
This is more of a glossary type term or test term. The transaction date is the date when the transaction happened which is based on the date of the signature. I ask people what the synonym is for a signature date to see how much they read.

Medjool Dates
If you go to a signing for health conscious people or Saudi’s, after the signing, you might get yet another type of a date — a Medjool date. These dates are typically grown in the Middle East, but also in parts of Arizona near Yuma

Hot Dates Q&A
If you steal a document, would the date on the document be correctly defined as being a “hot date” since it was technically stolen?

Dates and Journal Entries
A good Notary does more than his/her state’s minimum requirements for journal entries. There is a field in your journal for the name and/or description of the document. A good journal also has an optional field for the document date. I suggest you pay attention and write in the document date as it helps to identify a particular document and distinguish it from a different document with the same name signed by the same person. Sometimes the document date is the only way to tell them apart.

Dates and Notary Appointments
I once went to a Notary appointment with a date. I left the date in the car and came out $30 richer. She complained that I left her in the car too long, which is good, because that date would expire at midnight.

Please also read our previous article on the same topic. Read more…

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October 17, 2017

Notary Public 101 — POA, DOR, Dates, X

Return to the table of contents for Notary Public 101.

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ADDITIONAL TOPICS

These are really more loan signing topics, but I will include them in this basic Notary course since these are Notarized documents.

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POWER OF ATTORNEY

Notaries need to know the terms for the people involved in a Power of Attorney signing. The principal is the main person who signs the document who is the Grantor. This is the person who gives power of attorney to someone else to do tasks for him/her while he/she is incapacitated or out of the country. The Grantee is the same person as the Attorney in Fact or otherwise known as Agent. It is important to know these words and yes, we do test on them. However, at loan signings, people will do what is called a Power of Attorney signing. This happens when there is a completed Power of Attorney document and the Attorney in Fact will sign a loan on behalf of the principal. In these signings, they get rejected half the time for technicalities, so pay attention.

There are various ways for an Attorney in Fact to sign in their capacity.

John Smith as Attorney in Fact for Mary Smith
Mary Smith by John Smith, her Attorney in Fact.
John Smith POA for Mary Smith

There are more variations, but those are some common ones. The key thing to understand her is that:

The Lender decides the verbiage when you do a POA loan signing. The Notary might know the “correct” verbiage. However, legal information sites cite at least eight ways an AIF could sign in a POA signing that are all not BAD. The signing will be rejected if you do not sign exactly how the lender wants it. So, if there are no written instructions, ask the Lender.

How can I get a Power of Attorney Notarized?

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DEED OF RECONVEYANCE

The Deed of Reconveyance (DOR, not DOA by the way) is often signed by the Trustee and often has the term Trustee inscribed in the signature area instead of someone’s actual name which is very confusing and leads to trouble on a regular basis. Many Notaries have the borrower sign where it says trustee. Usually the trustee is a Lender, or might be the borrower in one of his capacities. If you are not sure who the Trustee is, then ask before you have someone sign there. It is safer to leave this form unsigned than guessing, otherwise you might cause a delay to the Lender and get fired. So, if you are not sure what to do, don’t have anyone sign where it says Trustee.

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DOCUMENT DATES

In the Notary world there are four types of dates. Transaction dates, rescission dates, document dates, and signature dates. The day you sign is the signature date and generally the transaction date. The rescission date is the last day to rescind. But, the document date is arbitrary and is created by the document drafter. It is normally either the day the document was drafted, the date it is intended to be signed, or an arbitrary date. There is no rule for what that date can be.

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SIGNATURE by X

If a signer is partially incapacitated and cannot sign their full name, many states will allow a Signature by X procedure. The procedure can vary state by state, but the way I was trained is as follows. The principal signs an X on the document and in your journal. There should be TWO SUBSCRIBING WITNESSES who witness the person sign. Witness #1 signs the person’s first name to the left of the X and witness #2 signs the person’s middle and last name to the right of the X. Do the same in the journal. Add a note to the document to let the readers and custodian know what happened as they might not be familiar with this procedure. Keep the phone numbers and ID info of the witnesses in your journal just in case.

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March 23, 2012

Notarization Dates, Document Dates & Signature Dates!

We had this question as a Facebook competition question. It was fun, but we got too many wrong answers which is a little bit disconcerting.  There are different dates you have to be aware of as a notary. Some are more important than others, and each date has its own function.
 
Signature Dates
The date the signer signs the document is the signature date of the particular signature.  There are cases when a husband and wife will sign the same document, but on different dates.  People are busy, and two notaries could handle the same paperwork on two separate days with two separate signers.  Those split signings are tricky, and are more likely to have to be redrawn.  But, just as long as you get paid, don’t stress!
 
Notarization Dates
The date you notarize someone’s signature is the notarization date.  The date corresponds to the signature, not the document.  A document could be signed by more than one party on different dates.  Or an addendum could be added and signed on another date as well.  Its complicated.
 
Document Dates
This is the question that 90% of the notaries got wrong.  I had very few choices of contestants to put in the drawing to win Starbucks!  The document date is NOT necessarily the date the document was drawn up, although it usually is.  It generally should not be dated after the signing to avoid confusion.  It is often dated the day the signing is intended to happen on, and is often dated the day it was drawn, or sometime in between.  There is no rule governing when the document date can be.  The function of this date is to be an identifying mark on the document to distinguish it from other documents.  Of course, if you have ten documents all entitled, “Affidavit“, to be signed by the same two parties, and all having the same document date, it really doesn’t narrow it down.
 
Your Journal
If you live in a state that doesn’t require journals, please don’t read this paragraph.  Actually, do read it, and get a journal anyway.  Your journal of official notarial acts is your record of all notary acts that you have done in your commission. It is evidence if you ever have to go to court, or if you are ever questioned about a particular act. It adds to the integrity of the notarization and safeguards against fraud, especially when you take thumbprints for all documents (optional, but recommended).   If a fraudulent notarization takes place with someone impostering you, without your journal, you will never have proof that you didn’t notarize that person. Journals keep records in sequential order, so you can go back to July 3rd, 2003, and see that you indeed never notarized Shelly Deeds and her Deed.
 
Backdating
In your career, you will most likely eventually be asked to put a fraudulent date on your notarial certificate which is refered to as backdating. This is illegal, and you can lose your commission as a result, if you get caught.  A lender might need you to date the certificate for the 27th, when its the 28th, so that the borrowers can keep their lock. Its their problem, don’t get involved.  Lose the client and keep out of jail! Please see our blog article entitled “Backdating from A to Z

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November 14, 2019

Permission to travel for minors

Filed under: Technical & Legal — admin @ 5:46 am

I once created my own permission to travel for minors. The reason is that I wanted places for thumbprints of the various parties involved. I got feedback from repeat clients that the officials in Mexico liked my form because it was thorough and included lots of good forensic information. Here is what I put on my form.

1. Name of the authorizing party.
2. Name of who (name of child) they were authorizing to travel
3. Dates they authorized the child to be gone.
4. Name of the accompanying adult and their relationship to the child or family if any.
5. Places where the party would be traveling to.
6. Thumbprints of the authorizing party and optional prints of the child, and accompanying parties.

I (name of authorizing party) authorize (name of child) to travel to (name of place) accompanied by (name of guardian adult). They will leave (name of city leaving from) on (date) and return on (date). They will be traveling to (name of cities and country).

I do not remember the exact verbiage, but this covers the bases and all pertinent information if I am not mistaken. Traveling overseas as a child is a big deal. You want to make sure nobody is getting kidnapped and make sure nobody is suspicious of kidnapping.

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November 10, 2019

The 2019 Democratic Notary Debates!

Filed under: Humorous Posts — admin @ 5:24 am

MODERATOR: Welcome to the first 2020 Democratic Notary Debate – a “perfect vision” of the future. On tonight’s stage are the top five candidates with the highest polls. We have former Vice President Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, and Pete Buttigieg debating with each other tonight. The first opening statement starts with Joe Biden.

JOE BIDEN: Well I want to thank our proud Notary Public for holding this debate. You know, I was talking to my good buddy Barrack the other day. Obama. The last great president, my good friend.

BERNIE SANDERS: Enough already, we know you know the guy.

JOE BIDEN: Everybody is angry these days. When I started out as a Notary we weren’t enemies. The only times we swore was when we were under Oath. I want to bring back that type of civility so we can get signings done.

BERNIE SANDERS: It is unfair that people should have to pay to be notarized. My idea of a stamping device is one that stamps out the millionaires and billionaires from breaking the backs of the 99% who deserve free notary signings. Additionally, I believe it should be free to become a Notary, and free training to know how to become a Notary, and while you’re at it — free chicken soup for everybody.

JOE BIDEN: I could use some of that soup, because you’re making me sick right now.

ELIZABETH WARREN: I’ve got a plan for that. We don’t need free chicken soup in this country. We need to impeach the chicken who’s in The White House who made up a bone spur excuse for getting out of serving his country. At the very least, the excuse could be notarized.

KAMALA HARRIS: When I was a prosecutor, I was putting away crooks left and right. The point being, I know a crook when I see one. This president is the opposite of a credible witness. There is nothing credible about any line that comes out of his mouth. I also believe that bad Notaries who don’t follow proper procedure should be prosecuted. The Notary Profession is a legal support profession, and letting it run haywire is not acceptable.

PETE BUTTIGIEG: As the youngest candidate here, I see a vision for the 2050’s when I’ll as old as the current occupant of The White House.

JOE BIDEN: Stop with the ageism you young whipper snapper.

BERNIE SANDERS: Joe, I hate to tell you, but the fact you used the word whipper snapper makes you sound older, older than me!

PETE BUTTIGIEG: I believe that Notaries should be allowed, or even required to use a rainbow colored Notary seal.

BERNIE SANDERS: Rainbow Shmainbow — when it comes to colors, believe me, I’m color blind. Did you hear that Kamala?

KAMALA HARRIS: You may be color blind, but I’m not color deaf — and yes I did hear that.

JOE BIDEN: Bernie, it sounds to me from that last remark that you are pandering to the black vote. I don’t think my half of my good buddy Barrack Obama would appreciate that — the black half.

BERNIE SANDERS: Well which half is black?

JOE BIDEN: His paternal lineage. His father is Kenyan, remember? Well of course, by being Barrack’s former vice president, I’m very well aware of that.

BERNIE SANDERS: Now, who’s pandering.

PETE BUTTIGIEG: Well, I’m the youngest one here and even I don’t have the energy for this.

ELIZABETH WARREN: I’ve got a plan for that. We’ll get a notarized copy of your birth certificate to see if you even are old enough to run for president.

BERNIE SANDERS: Vital records cannot be notarized, so you might have a problem with that. But, if they could I would make it free!

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August 27, 2019

Notary class where students are full of wise cracks

Filed under: Humorous Posts — admin @ 10:52 pm

TEACHER: Okay class, please turn to page four.

CLASS: Yes, teacher.

TEACHER: Now who can tell me what an embosser is?

JOHNNY: An embosser is a type of notary seal that leaves a raised impression.

TEACHER: Very good Johnny. You may sit down now.

JOHNNY: Does that raise your impression of me?

TEACHER: Yes Johnny, you are a fine young man.

TIMMY: Will he get a raise?

TEACHER: Enough out of you Timmy. No raise for you. Now, a Notary must keep a journal of Notarial acts, does any one know why?

TIMMY: Because the state makes us?

TEACHER: Yes, Timmy, but I was looking for more of an intrinsic reason.

TIMMY: Umm, because it would look more official?

TEACHER: No class, it is because you need a record of what you notarized just in case someone claims that the particular document was fraudulently notarized. Now, do we know why the State of California requires thumbprinting for recorded documents and Powers of Attorney/

FRED: Umm, so you get to hold the signer’s hand… like if she is a hot woman?

TEACHER: No, it is because an identity document can be forged but you cannot fake a thumbprint, at least I don’t think you can. So, how would you rate this class so far?

JOHNNY: Two thumbs up, but two thumbs not from the same signer as you are only supposed to use the right thumbprint in your journal unless it has been amputated.

TEACHER: Very good Johnny, that is the first intelligent and non demented thing you have said all semester. How did you acquire this knowledge?

JOHNNY: I broke down and actually did something called (pause) reading.

TEACHER: God forbid! Now how do we fill in a certificate?

TIMMY: Won’t it fill in on its own shortly after it hits puberty?

TEACHER: Only if it is a female certificate Timmy. But, good try. You need to fill in the county, name of notary, signer, date, and cross out unnecessary information in the pronoun section. But, the optional information below is also critical. You should mention the number of pages in the document, the document date, and the name of the document just in case someone wants to put that certificate and attach it to some other document.

FRED: Hmm, I think we’re on the same page here. But, I didn’t know documents had dates. Do they kiss on the first date?

TEACHER: I think that depends on — what kind of document it is.

TIMMY: I tried kissing a document and it said very loudly, and I quote — “I’m not that kind of document.”

TEACHER: Well, if you are the one trying to kiss it, I think that most documents would say the same thing.

JOHNNY: Yeah, maybe you should try to kiss a blind document, that way it would not realize what it was kissing.

TEACHER: Another intelligent point Johnny. We are really on a role now! Well, that concludes class for the day. Thanks for coming. Don’t forget to initial on your way out!

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August 20, 2019

A bar only for “cool” notaries

Filed under: Virtual Comedy Themes — admin @ 11:48 pm

I had a dream that I bought a bar and wanted to make it the coolest place only, and for Notaries primarily. So, what I did was to create this apparatus called a “coolometer”. It is a little like how they strap you to a laughometer at comedy places where they charge by the laugh. The coolometer measures how cool you are, so the bouncer can decide whether or not to let you in on a busy night.

In any case, the machine has a rating from one to ten to test how cool you are. On a regular night you need to score at least four so we know you are not a complete dweeb. But, on the weekends you need to score at least six. Day time we did not have too many restrictions just as long as you weren’t scaring people away.

So, the bar did well. Many Notaries came and swapped stories about backdating, who paid, who didn’t, and more. Some Notaries decided to become pick up artists and come up with pick up lines (which usually didn’t work.

Do you sign her often?
What’s your sign?

LINE: Do your parents know that you hang out in dangerous neighborhoods after dark?
RESPONSE: This neighborhood isn’t dangerous.
LINE: It is when I’m here baby!

In any case, everyone had a good time and the bouncer had the necessary tools to pick them. Thank God he didn’t decide to screen people based on Notary knowledge otherwise the bar would have been empty. But, then, I decided to visit my own bar. The bouncer strapped me to my coolometer and said that I only scored a three and couldn’t come in. I said, “But, I invented this machine — not fair… plus I am the owner. What gives?” Then he said, “Just kidding.” I was so riled after that I had to have a home made ginger beer spiked with rum. Good God. And remember — Don’t drink and sign!

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April 21, 2019

The notary who was oral retentive

Filed under: Humorous Posts — admin @ 10:40 am

There once was a Notary named Clyde who was so picky about how he gave his Oaths. Everything had to be worded very particularly. If there was even a word out of place, he would have to rewrite the entire script. Each job got a unique script. And he didn’t like it when the affiants were sloppy about how they answered Oath questions.

CLYDE: Do you solemnly swear that you are a citizen of these great United States of America, so help you God, with liberty and justice for all?

AFFIANT: Yeah, whatever.

CLYDE: I beg your pardon. Whatever is not an acceptable answer. I would like a clear and definitive yes.

AFFIANT: Yes…. definitively. Boy are you anal.

CLYDE: I’m only anal retentive about signatures and dates on documents. About verbal acts I’m oral retentive.

AFFIANT: I never heard that one before.

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March 4, 2019

Can a notary sign on a different day?

Can a Notary sign on a different day?
What does this mean anyway? In the Notary world, there are different types of dates that have different types of names. As a signer, you might need to know some of these dates so you can communicate with Lenders, Attorneys and Notaries.

Transaction Date — The date a document is signed

Signature Date — The date a document is signed

Rescission Date — The day when you can no longer cancel a loan

Notarization Date — The date a document is notarized.

Document Date — The date inscribed within the document (which is generally arbitrary but could coincide with when it was supposed to be signed, drafted or notarized.)

Medjool Date — That’s the date you eat at one of those high class massage places that play old school medieval music and have a Moorish looking fountain in the middle of the spa.

Now that we are all experts in dates, a document can be notarized anytime after the document is signed if you are having the notary act called an Acknowledgment done. An Acknowledgment is an act where the signer appears before a Notary Public, and acknowledges having signed a particular document. The signer doesn’t have to sign in the presence of the notary for this act except in a very few states. The signer could sign one second before the notarization or ten years — it does not matter. Unfortunately, most Notaries are so ignorant of the laws affecting Acknowledgments, that they might require you to sign in their presence even when it is not legally required — which is itself is an illegal request on the part of the Notary. A Notary may not turn down a legal request for notarization.

So, there is the law, and then there is the Notary’s incorrect interpretation of the law. It might help to ask a local notary this question as it is state specific and open to (mis)interpretation, at least most of the time. I’m sorry to disappoint the readers here, but I regularly test Notaries on basic notary competence and the results are not promising and few Notaries are willing to study from out materials or any materials either. So, I feel your grief. But on a brighter note, you can celebrate a good notarization by having a medjool date. They are very healthy and good for your kidney qi according to Chinese holistic medicine.

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February 16, 2019

What is a document date?

Filed under: Technical & Legal — Tags: , , — admin @ 10:42 am

What is a document date on a document? Is the document date an important fact for Notaries to know? There is a great bit of confusion about this topic.

A document date is an arbitrary date that the document drafter adds or inscribes within the document. Although the document date is arbitrary, certain customs apply.

The document date is usually based on the date the document is either written, becomes effective, or is intended to be signed.

In real life, sometimes signings are postponed by a day or two because something came up. The main point to remember here is that there is no hard and fast rule as to what a document date is, can be or should be. To further research this point, I read through the first several dozen posts on Google about this topic and none of them address is clearly.

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