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April 10, 2018

Document dates, signature dates, rescission dates and transaction dates

As a Notary, you will undoubtedly be confronted with a variety of dates that all need to be clearly defined in conversation so as not to confuse yourself or the other party. Let me sum these up.

Document Dates
The document date is NOT necessarily the date the document is notarized. It is merely an arbitrary date normally created by the document drafter that might reflect the date the document was drafted, supposed to be signed, supposed to be notarized, or some other arbitrary date. There is no rule for when a document date can be.

Signature Dates
The signature date of a document is the date it was signed. If you have two signers signing on different dates, you might have what 123notary calls “a double date.” There are multiple questions involved in a double date. One is how do you date the rescission document if the date you signed a document is more than one date. The other far more important question is — who pays?

Rescission Dates
The rescission date is based on a date that comes CALENDAR three days after the transaction (= signature date) not including Sundays or Federal holidays. If you have two signature dates, you might have two rescission dates, one per person. But, if there is only one rescission date, it probably is based on the last signature (complicated.)

Transaction Dates
This is more of a glossary type term or test term. The transaction date is the date when the transaction happened which is based on the date of the signature. I ask people what the synonym is for a signature date to see how much they read.

Medjool Dates
If you go to a signing for health conscious people or Saudi’s, after the signing, you might get yet another type of a date — a Medjool date. These dates are typically grown in the Middle East, but also in parts of Arizona near Yuma

Hot Dates Q&A
If you steal a document, would the date on the document be correctly defined as being a “hot date” since it was technically stolen?

Dates and Journal Entries
A good Notary does more than his/her state’s minimum requirements for journal entries. There is a field in your journal for the name and/or description of the document. A good journal also has an optional field for the document date. I suggest you pay attention and write in the document date as it helps to identify a particular document and distinguish it from a different document with the same name signed by the same person. Sometimes the document date is the only way to tell them apart.

Dates and Notary Appointments
I once went to a Notary appointment with a date. I left the date in the car and came out $30 richer. She complained that I left her in the car too long, which is good, because that date would expire at midnight.

Please also read our previous article on the same topic. Read more…

You might also like:

Notary Public 101 Certificates!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19502

10 tight points on loose certificates
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=15449

Backdating from A to Z
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2424

5 books every notary should own and read
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=3668

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October 17, 2017

Notary Public 101 — POA, DOR, Dates, X

Return to the table of contents for Notary Public 101.

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ADDITIONAL TOPICS

These are really more loan signing topics, but I will include them in this basic Notary course since these are Notarized documents.

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POWER OF ATTORNEY

Notaries need to know the terms for the people involved in a Power of Attorney signing. The principal is the main person who signs the document who is the Grantor. This is the person who gives power of attorney to someone else to do tasks for him/her while he/she is incapacitated or out of the country. The Grantee is the same person as the Attorney in Fact or otherwise known as Agent. It is important to know these words and yes, we do test on them. However, at loan signings, people will do what is called a Power of Attorney signing. This happens when there is a completed Power of Attorney document and the Attorney in Fact will sign a loan on behalf of the principal. In these signings, they get rejected half the time for technicalities, so pay attention.

There are various ways for an Attorney in Fact to sign in their capacity.

John Smith as Attorney in Fact for Mary Smith
Mary Smith by John Smith, her Attorney in Fact.
John Smith POA for Mary Smith

There are more variations, but those are some common ones. The key thing to understand her is that:

The Lender decides the verbiage when you do a POA loan signing. The Notary might know the “correct” verbiage. However, legal information sites cite at least eight ways an AIF could sign in a POA signing that are all not BAD. The signing will be rejected if you do not sign exactly how the lender wants it. So, if there are no written instructions, ask the Lender.

How can I get a Power of Attorney Notarized?

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DEED OF RECONVEYANCE

The Deed of Reconveyance (DOR, not DOA by the way) is often signed by the Trustee and often has the term Trustee inscribed in the signature area instead of someone’s actual name which is very confusing and leads to trouble on a regular basis. Many Notaries have the borrower sign where it says trustee. Usually the trustee is a Lender, or might be the borrower in one of his capacities. If you are not sure who the Trustee is, then ask before you have someone sign there. It is safer to leave this form unsigned than guessing, otherwise you might cause a delay to the Lender and get fired. So, if you are not sure what to do, don’t have anyone sign where it says Trustee.

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DOCUMENT DATES

In the Notary world there are four types of dates. Transaction dates, rescission dates, document dates, and signature dates. The day you sign is the signature date and generally the transaction date. The rescission date is the last day to rescind. But, the document date is arbitrary and is created by the document drafter. It is normally either the day the document was drafted, the date it is intended to be signed, or an arbitrary date. There is no rule for what that date can be.

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SIGNATURE by X

If a signer is partially incapacitated and cannot sign their full name, many states will allow a Signature by X procedure. The procedure can vary state by state, but the way I was trained is as follows. The principal signs an X on the document and in your journal. There should be TWO SUBSCRIBING WITNESSES who witness the person sign. Witness #1 signs the person’s first name to the left of the X and witness #2 signs the person’s middle and last name to the right of the X. Do the same in the journal. Add a note to the document to let the readers and custodian know what happened as they might not be familiar with this procedure. Keep the phone numbers and ID info of the witnesses in your journal just in case.

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March 23, 2012

Notarization Dates, Document Dates & Signature Dates!

We had this question as a Facebook competition question. It was fun, but we got too many wrong answers which is a little bit disconcerting.  There are different dates you have to be aware of as a notary. Some are more important than others, and each date has its own function.
 
Signature Dates
The date the signer signs the document is the signature date of the particular signature.  There are cases when a husband and wife will sign the same document, but on different dates.  People are busy, and two notaries could handle the same paperwork on two separate days with two separate signers.  Those split signings are tricky, and are more likely to have to be redrawn.  But, just as long as you get paid, don’t stress!
 
Notarization Dates
The date you notarize someone’s signature is the notarization date.  The date corresponds to the signature, not the document.  A document could be signed by more than one party on different dates.  Or an addendum could be added and signed on another date as well.  Its complicated.
 
Document Dates
This is the question that 90% of the notaries got wrong.  I had very few choices of contestants to put in the drawing to win Starbucks!  The document date is NOT necessarily the date the document was drawn up, although it usually is.  It generally should not be dated after the signing to avoid confusion.  It is often dated the day the signing is intended to happen on, and is often dated the day it was drawn, or sometime in between.  There is no rule governing when the document date can be.  The function of this date is to be an identifying mark on the document to distinguish it from other documents.  Of course, if you have ten documents all entitled, “Affidavit“, to be signed by the same two parties, and all having the same document date, it really doesn’t narrow it down.
 
Your Journal
If you live in a state that doesn’t require journals, please don’t read this paragraph.  Actually, do read it, and get a journal anyway.  Your journal of official notarial acts is your record of all notary acts that you have done in your commission. It is evidence if you ever have to go to court, or if you are ever questioned about a particular act. It adds to the integrity of the notarization and safeguards against fraud, especially when you take thumbprints for all documents (optional, but recommended).   If a fraudulent notarization takes place with someone impostering you, without your journal, you will never have proof that you didn’t notarize that person. Journals keep records in sequential order, so you can go back to July 3rd, 2003, and see that you indeed never notarized Shelly Deeds and her Deed.
 
Backdating
In your career, you will most likely eventually be asked to put a fraudulent date on your notarial certificate which is refered to as backdating. This is illegal, and you can lose your commission as a result, if you get caught.  A lender might need you to date the certificate for the 27th, when its the 28th, so that the borrowers can keep their lock. Its their problem, don’t get involved.  Lose the client and keep out of jail! Please see our blog article entitled “Backdating from A to Z

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A lady lost a great account because she wouldn’t backdate!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=22229

Leave a few spaces open in your journal

The transaction date = the signature date: Feb 2013 Phoninar
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=4054

How do I fill out a journal entry?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1725

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August 9, 2020

Are lockdowns good for the elderly and vulnerable?

Filed under: General Stories — admin @ 8:43 am

If you look at the age stats on Worldometer’s Coronavirus pages, you will find that those who are healthy at any age are very rarely victims of this terrible disease. There is a reason why people 70+ or those with lung or immunity issues would hide at home. But, if the healthy are hiding at home, that prolongs the disease.

The CDC and disease control agencies want to prolong the disease as long as possible. But, that is not good for the elderly or anyone else effected by the shut down. So, let’s imagine several scenarios.

1. Severe lock down.
If you have a hard lock down, the disease would spread very slowly. It might stop altogether that is — until you reopen, and someone from another place, or another species i.e. bats or cats reseeds your population with cases. Then you get the epidemic starting all over again. You close down again, and then open up again and the same thing can keep happening. Immunity is the only thing that can stop Covid19 in the long run. The Chinese government follows this type of solution which is a non-solution if you track out where they will be in a year.

2. Moderate lock down
Unfortunately, all of the USA based their lock down dates based on what was happening in NYC and fear that they would end up just like Northern Italy which has turned out to be very distant from the truth. If you lock down too early, you don’t flatten the curve, you push the curve farther to the right and delay the curve — unless you do a moderate lock down that began too early and keep it for about four months. This is what California wants to do, and we will not have an economy to open after four months. But, our governor doesn’t understand that as he is a shut down fiend!

3. No lock down
If the elderly stay at home and the rest of humanity goes about their business, the death rate will not be that bad. Sweden has proven this. People under 70 in good health are not the ones dying so there is no point in quarantining them for nothing.

4. Accelerated Covid, a novel idea for a novel virus.
What if people under 40 in good health went to street parties and spread the disease as fast as they could while the elderly stayed safe at home? They would develop immunity really fast. Instead of flattening the curve, they would steepen the curve. The advantage is that this whole nightmare would be over a lot faster. Yes, hospitals might be overloaded for two weeks, but after that, the elderly would be able to leave their apartments without the fear of death.

Summary
My personal opinion is that Covid19 is a plague from God and we need to just face it and let it take its course. You can’t stop God’s work. Just deal with it. All of these lockdowns are basically like bad teenagers hiding from their parents to avoid a punishment. After they come out of hiding whether that is 1 hour or 10 days, they will still get the punishment. Hiding accomplishes nothing other than a lots of wasted time.

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April 28, 2020

A notary dies and sees his whole life flash before him

Filed under: General Articles — admin @ 9:33 am

We don’t always think about dying. I think about it when I am on a plane because I get paranoid during turbulence. Other people get paranoid during notarizations — what if I die while affixing my seal? But, this story is about a notary who dies.

Joe the Notary was on his last day. He drove to his notary job, drove home, had dinner and then started dying. His life flashed before him like it does in a movie, but without the special effects.

Joe was dying. Not from indigestion, although the burrito was a little to spicy. He was just dying. Angels appeared before him. He saw all of the bad deeds he had done which included quit claim deeds. He saw all the times he backdated and learned that he would be judged in heaven for those wrongful things. He also saw that he has not been paid for a handful of signing companies and that they too would be penalized on the other side. He saw his wedding, his wives, kids, mistresses and concubines. Yes, Joe had been a bad boy. Nobody knew except for the folks in the brighter world who keep tabs on these things. He saw his birth, salient childhood memories, the day he learned to tie his shoes, the day he learned to wipe in the bathroom and the day he joined the football team.

Yes, Joe had lived a good life. But, now he would be judged for backdating. Why is like so cruel… or should I say, afterlife? Afterlife’s a bitch!

So, he was sent to backdate purgatory. It was not hell, not horrible, but not heaven either. It was a particular karmic realm where people who fudged dates were sent. He was scheduled to be sent there on the 10th, but delivered on the 9th while the paperwork said the 10th. Joe asked what was going on — the clerk said, “karmic retribution sir.” He was scheduled to have dinner at 6pm but it was served at 9pm but on the form it said 6pm. Joe would be punished for three years in this realm. It really wasn’t that bad, but the dates and times were routinely fudged. Hmmm.

So, if you are thinking about committing notary

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March 17, 2020

Most popular posts as of 2019

Filed under: Compilations — admin @ 11:53 am

How to get something notarized if you don’t have ID
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=697

Can a notary perform a wedding or marriage?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1891

Penalties for notary misdeeds & misconduct!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2067

Names for Notary businesses that can get you in trouble
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19064

What does it mean to be Fidelity Approved?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20049

Do I notarize every page of a document?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2280

Can a notary notarize a birth certificate?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2300

Bank of America Power of Attorney Form
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=21327

Where can I find a Spanish speaking notary?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18824

Notary Verbiage & Notary Wording
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18854

Can a notary sign on a different day?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2457

Can a notary get in trouble?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1745

Notarizing multi-page documents
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1706

Can a notary notarize a Will or Living Will?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=7088

Can a notary sign an out of state Quit Claim Deed?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2182

Can a notary be a witness?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1273

Notarization Dates, Document Dates & Signature Dates!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2421

Websites from some of our best Notaries!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=14677

Can a Virginia Notary notarize in DC or Maryland?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18782

Notary Public 101 from 123notary!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19493

Can a notary witness a will or notarize one?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1525

Affidavit of Citizenship
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18847

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February 9, 2020

2012 complication of best posts

Filed under: Compilations — admin @ 9:50 am

Here are some of our best posts from 2012.

TECHNICAL

What is signature by X?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2278

Information about various notary procedures
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2268

Rules for notarizing a bedridden person
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2243

Backdating from A to Z
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2424

All you need to know about notary work
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2354

Can a notary notarize a birth certificate?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2300

Fraud and forgery in the notary profession
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2294

Do I notarize every page of the document?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2280

Notary boiler plate wording
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2432

Notarization dates, Document dates & Signature dates!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2421

Sending loose certificates is illegal
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2470

Can a notary sign on a different day?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2457

Don’t drop the Fedex in the drop box!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2831

Protecting yourself with a contract
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2593

Tips for Notaries
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=3360

STORIES

Borrowers and their filthy homes
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2214

Power of Attorney at a nursing home
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2305

123notary behind the scenes
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2499

20 stories about animals at signings
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=3074

5 books every notary should own (and read)
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=3668

3 notaries walk into a bar
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=3660

I make mistakes too
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=3639

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November 14, 2019

Permission to travel for minors

Filed under: Technical & Legal — admin @ 5:46 am

I once created my own permission to travel for minors. The reason is that I wanted places for thumbprints of the various parties involved. I got feedback from repeat clients that the officials in Mexico liked my form because it was thorough and included lots of good forensic information. Here is what I put on my form.

1. Name of the authorizing party.
2. Name of who (name of child) they were authorizing to travel
3. Dates they authorized the child to be gone.
4. Name of the accompanying adult and their relationship to the child or family if any.
5. Places where the party would be traveling to.
6. Thumbprints of the authorizing party and optional prints of the child, and accompanying parties.

I (name of authorizing party) authorize (name of child) to travel to (name of place) accompanied by (name of guardian adult). They will leave (name of city leaving from) on (date) and return on (date). They will be traveling to (name of cities and country).

I do not remember the exact verbiage, but this covers the bases and all pertinent information if I am not mistaken. Traveling overseas as a child is a big deal. You want to make sure nobody is getting kidnapped and make sure nobody is suspicious of kidnapping.

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What type of forms should a notary keep in their bag?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20011

Make your own notary certificate forms!
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1759

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November 10, 2019

The 2019 Democratic Notary Debates!

Filed under: Humorous Posts — admin @ 5:24 am

MODERATOR: Welcome to the first 2020 Democratic Notary Debate – a “perfect vision” of the future. On tonight’s stage are the top five candidates with the highest polls. We have former Vice President Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, and Pete Buttigieg debating with each other tonight. The first opening statement starts with Joe Biden.

JOE BIDEN: Well I want to thank our proud Notary Public for holding this debate. You know, I was talking to my good buddy Barrack the other day. Obama. The last great president, my good friend.

BERNIE SANDERS: Enough already, we know you know the guy.

JOE BIDEN: Everybody is angry these days. When I started out as a Notary we weren’t enemies. The only times we swore was when we were under Oath. I want to bring back that type of civility so we can get signings done.

BERNIE SANDERS: It is unfair that people should have to pay to be notarized. My idea of a stamping device is one that stamps out the millionaires and billionaires from breaking the backs of the 99% who deserve free notary signings. Additionally, I believe it should be free to become a Notary, and free training to know how to become a Notary, and while you’re at it — free chicken soup for everybody.

JOE BIDEN: I could use some of that soup, because you’re making me sick right now.

ELIZABETH WARREN: I’ve got a plan for that. We don’t need free chicken soup in this country. We need to impeach the chicken who’s in The White House who made up a bone spur excuse for getting out of serving his country. At the very least, the excuse could be notarized.

KAMALA HARRIS: When I was a prosecutor, I was putting away crooks left and right. The point being, I know a crook when I see one. This president is the opposite of a credible witness. There is nothing credible about any line that comes out of his mouth. I also believe that bad Notaries who don’t follow proper procedure should be prosecuted. The Notary Profession is a legal support profession, and letting it run haywire is not acceptable.

PETE BUTTIGIEG: As the youngest candidate here, I see a vision for the 2050’s when I’ll as old as the current occupant of The White House.

JOE BIDEN: Stop with the ageism you young whipper snapper.

BERNIE SANDERS: Joe, I hate to tell you, but the fact you used the word whipper snapper makes you sound older, older than me!

PETE BUTTIGIEG: I believe that Notaries should be allowed, or even required to use a rainbow colored Notary seal.

BERNIE SANDERS: Rainbow Shmainbow — when it comes to colors, believe me, I’m color blind. Did you hear that Kamala?

KAMALA HARRIS: You may be color blind, but I’m not color deaf — and yes I did hear that.

JOE BIDEN: Bernie, it sounds to me from that last remark that you are pandering to the black vote. I don’t think my half of my good buddy Barrack Obama would appreciate that — the black half.

BERNIE SANDERS: Well which half is black?

JOE BIDEN: His paternal lineage. His father is Kenyan, remember? Well of course, by being Barrack’s former vice president, I’m very well aware of that.

BERNIE SANDERS: Now, who’s pandering.

PETE BUTTIGIEG: Well, I’m the youngest one here and even I don’t have the energy for this.

ELIZABETH WARREN: I’ve got a plan for that. We’ll get a notarized copy of your birth certificate to see if you even are old enough to run for president.

BERNIE SANDERS: Vital records cannot be notarized, so you might have a problem with that. But, if they could I would make it free!

You might also like

Will the next election help the notary industry?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=22267

Compilation of posts about notary and politics
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20357

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August 27, 2019

Notary class where students are full of wise cracks

Filed under: Humorous Posts — admin @ 10:52 pm

TEACHER: Okay class, please turn to page four.

CLASS: Yes, teacher.

TEACHER: Now who can tell me what an embosser is?

JOHNNY: An embosser is a type of notary seal that leaves a raised impression.

TEACHER: Very good Johnny. You may sit down now.

JOHNNY: Does that raise your impression of me?

TEACHER: Yes Johnny, you are a fine young man.

TIMMY: Will he get a raise?

TEACHER: Enough out of you Timmy. No raise for you. Now, a Notary must keep a journal of Notarial acts, does any one know why?

TIMMY: Because the state makes us?

TEACHER: Yes, Timmy, but I was looking for more of an intrinsic reason.

TIMMY: Umm, because it would look more official?

TEACHER: No class, it is because you need a record of what you notarized just in case someone claims that the particular document was fraudulently notarized. Now, do we know why the State of California requires thumbprinting for recorded documents and Powers of Attorney/

FRED: Umm, so you get to hold the signer’s hand… like if she is a hot woman?

TEACHER: No, it is because an identity document can be forged but you cannot fake a thumbprint, at least I don’t think you can. So, how would you rate this class so far?

JOHNNY: Two thumbs up, but two thumbs not from the same signer as you are only supposed to use the right thumbprint in your journal unless it has been amputated.

TEACHER: Very good Johnny, that is the first intelligent and non demented thing you have said all semester. How did you acquire this knowledge?

JOHNNY: I broke down and actually did something called (pause) reading.

TEACHER: God forbid! Now how do we fill in a certificate?

TIMMY: Won’t it fill in on its own shortly after it hits puberty?

TEACHER: Only if it is a female certificate Timmy. But, good try. You need to fill in the county, name of notary, signer, date, and cross out unnecessary information in the pronoun section. But, the optional information below is also critical. You should mention the number of pages in the document, the document date, and the name of the document just in case someone wants to put that certificate and attach it to some other document.

FRED: Hmm, I think we’re on the same page here. But, I didn’t know documents had dates. Do they kiss on the first date?

TEACHER: I think that depends on — what kind of document it is.

TIMMY: I tried kissing a document and it said very loudly, and I quote — “I’m not that kind of document.”

TEACHER: Well, if you are the one trying to kiss it, I think that most documents would say the same thing.

JOHNNY: Yeah, maybe you should try to kiss a blind document, that way it would not realize what it was kissing.

TEACHER: Another intelligent point Johnny. We are really on a role now! Well, that concludes class for the day. Thanks for coming. Don’t forget to initial on your way out!

You might also like:

Notary high school 80’s style
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=22399

Are you a bad boy notary?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=22380

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