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November 6, 2018

Compilation of posts about credible witnesses

Filed under: Compilations,Credible Witnesses — Tags: credible witness, credible witnesses — admin @ 10:49 am

Here are some helpful posts about credible witnesses. Not all states allow credible witnesses, and the rules are state specific.

Credible Witnesses from A to Z
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=452

Notary Public 101 (covers many Notary issues, but not Credible Witnesses.)
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19493

Credible Witnesses — the process explained
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=16695

Credible Witnesses, the ins and outs
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19634

Credible Witnesses
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18911

See our string on Credible Witnesses
http://blog.123notary.com/?tag=credible-witness

Credible Witness protection plan
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18831

Where do credible witnesses sign the journal book?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2508

How much can a Notary charge for a credible witness?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2700

Credible Witness requirements
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2464

What is a Credible Witness notarization?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2408

Oath of two Credible Witnesses
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2405

Types of witnesses in the Notary profession
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=5664

Comments (0)

January 16, 2018

Credible Witnesses, the ins and the outs.

Filed under: Credible Witnesses,Identification For Being Notarized — Tags: Credible Identifying Witnesses, credible witnesses, How does a Notary use credible witnesses? — admin @ 10:52 am

Not all states allow credible witnesses, and some states like California have odd rules for credible witnesses. I also have opinions about credible witnesses as I used them frequently.

Some states that allow credible witnesses require only one witness. One that knows both the signer and the Notary.

Some states don’t allow credible witnesses at all.

While other states allow the use of two credible witnesses who both know the signer but do not know the Notary. Or one credible witness who knows both.

The problem is how credible witnesses are used. Credible witnesses are normally used when the Notary gets to a Notary appointment and the signer has no ID. Or sometimes the ID has the wrong name. Hurry, get a credible witness or the notarization is over! So, you grab a neighbor, or coworker who swears they know you well.

The problem is that knowing you as a neighbor is very different than knowing you well enough to have your middle name(s) memorized.

You could test a credible witness out and ask, “What is this man’s middle name?” If they don’t know it, I would not think of them as a credible or reliable source of information. The law might allow you to use them but does it really make sense. They are just going along with whatever middle name the signer claims to be.

Or, you could use your judgement while picking credible witnesses. Personally, I feel that a family member or spouse is a quality choice for a credible witness as family members will know the other family members middle names. But, my friends who I’ve known for 30 years I do not know their middle names — sorry to say.

Additionally, in California, the credible witness has to swear that the signer cannot easily obtain an identification acceptable to the state of California such as a driver license, passport, etc. So, if the signer has an ID, but the names do not match, it would be bending the law to use a credible witness in that situation. If you don’t believe me, read page 12 of the 2017 California Notary Handbook.

All in all, I would say that using credible witnesses as a way to get out of a bind is something that should only be done if the credible witness really knows the person intimately and knows their middle names intimately off the top of their head. Otherwise you are just finding loopholes. And God forbid if you don’t take journal thumbprints you are asking for a court case and an FBI investigation! Be cautious as a Notary. It is easy to get in trouble and big trouble!

You might also like:

Credible witnesses – the process explained
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=16695

Where do credible witnesses sign the notary journal book?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2508

Credible Witnesses from A to Z
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=452

Comments (0)

July 5, 2016

Credible Witnesses — The Process Explained

Filed under: Credible Witnesses,Popular on Facebook (shares) — Tags: credible witness, credible witnesses — admin @ 6:01 am

What is the process for using credible witnesses? First of all, not all states allow the use of credible witnesses.

Which states allow credible witnesses?
http://www.123notary.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4047

One Witness or Two?
Some states will allow the use of one credible witness that knows the Notary and also knows the signer. Other states require the use of two credible witnesses. You need to know your state law to know what your state allows.

Knowing the Signer
The next question is, how well does a credible witness need to know a signer in order to swear under Oath that they know that person as a particular name? Most credible witnesses know the person as Joe, and have no clue what the last name is. They are swearing under Oath to something they were verbally told at the time of the notarization and they don’t really know Joe that well. In my opinion, credible witnesses should not be legal unless there is more scrutinizing to see how well they know the signer and how they learned the signer’s name before they were told at the signing what the Notary wants the signer’s name to be. Perhaps the Notary should ask the witness what the signer’s name is rather than telling them.

Journal Requirements
Credible witnesses must SIGN the notary journal, but NOT in the signature section. They must sign in the notes section. The Signer signs the journal in the signature section — get that straight! The Notary should write down the name, address, and driver license number of the credible witness as well.

Oaths
Finally, the Notary must administer an Oath to the credible witness(es) asking them to swear that the name of the signer is John Q Doe, etc.

Summary
The idea of having credible witnesses is the best thing that ever happened to the Notary profession. Using credible witnesses you can legally notarize a signer as Mickey Mouse or Ronald Reagan — and all without any form of identification. We recommend you take journal thumbprints of the signer for proof that the signer really is who they say they are just in case fraud is suspected. Most states do not require journal thumbprints, but take them anyway because you will get investigated one day — and perhaps by an investigator named Mickey Mouse.

You might also like:

Where do credible witnesses sign the notary journal book?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2508

Credible Witnesses from A to Z
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=452

Comments (3)

May 23, 2012

Where do credible witnesses sign the notary journal book

Filed under: Credible Witnesses,Journals — Tags: notarial, notarial acts, Notary, notary journal — admin @ 12:26 pm

Where do credible witnesses sign the notary journal (register)(book)?

Some states require notaries to carry an official journal of notarial acts while others recommend it, but don’t require it. Some states call the journal of notarial acts a journal, while others call it a registry or a book. The main thing to remember, is that a good notary journal must be bound and sequential. Each entry must be in chronological order. Different journal manufacturers make journals differently. I recommend getting one with a thumbprint section and space to write notes. Most states don’t require notaries to take thumbprints, but for your security as a notary, you need thumbprints to keep you out of court if anyone questions whether the signer was a fraud or imposter. Thumbprints are a better proof of identity than any other means.

The credible witness signs the notary journal in the additional notes section!
They do NOT sign in the signature area!!! Signature areas are for the document signer, and only one document signer can sign in a particular journal entry’s signature area. If there are two signers, then make two journal entries! The credible witness must sign in the notes section because there is blank space there. You should document the credible witness’s identification, phone, and address to be thorough.

The notary needs to administer an Oath to the credible witness where the credible witness must swear to the identity of the signer. Make sure the credible witness really knows the signer well, otherwise they are not really qualified to identify someone that they know only as “Ralph”, and don’t even know his middle or last name!

You might also like:

Notary Public Journal
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=21409

Everything you need to know about notary journals
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=70

Index of posts about journals
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20272

Comments (1)

March 17, 2012

Oath of two credible witnesses

Filed under: Credible Witnesses — Tags: 2 credible witnesses, Administer an Oath, Notary Public, Oath of 2 credible witnesses, Oath of two credible witnesses, Two credible witnesses — admin @ 3:39 am

Oath of two credible witnesses

We wrote another quick blog entry regarding WHEN you can use the oaths of two credible witnesses to identify a signer. We also specified WHICH STATES you are allowed to use the oaths of two credible witnesses in. Please refer to:

Credible witnesses from A to Z
to learn which states allow the use of oaths from two credible witnesses to identify a signer. If a notary public uses two credible witnesses, then the notary doesn’t need to know those credible witnesses, however, the credible witnesses should be able to tell the notary public the complete name of the signer(s). Please keep in mind that you should not use credible witnesses unless the signer either has no identification, or unless it is too difficult to obtain that identification (generally because it at a different place far away).

Please keep in mind that the notary public must administer an oath to the credible witnesses asking them to swear under oath as to the identity of the signer, and that the credible witnesses should sign the notary journal in the notes section as well. The notary must also identify the credible witnesses by means of identification documents such as a drivers license, passport, etc.

You might also like:

Sample Affidavits & Sample Oaths
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2372

Comments (0)

January 8, 2011

Credible Witnesses from A to Z

Filed under: Comprehensive Guides,Credible Witnesses — Tags: 1 credible witness, 2 credible witnesses, credible identifying witness, credible witness, credible witness notary, Credible Witness Rules, cwaz, how many credible witnesses — admin @ 1:51 am

Credible Witnesses from A to Z

What is a credible witness?
A credible witness, “CW”, or credible identifying witness is someone who can identify a signer at a notary signing. The credible witness must know the signer and must know the signer’s name. The witness should know the signer by having met many times in the past through different individuals. Some states require that the credible witness always knows the notary as well, to create a chain of relationships, while others only require that the credible witness knows the notary if only one credible witness is used. The credible witness should be an impartial party who does not have beneficial interest in the document

Which states allow the use of credible witnesses?
Many states allow credible witnesses, and we documented these states on a forum post
http://www.123notary.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4047. To summarize: Virginia is a state that does not allow credible witnesses. Most other states that we have information about do allow credible witnesses.

States that allow 1 Credible Witness
How many credible witnesses do you need to use in various states? What are the credible witness rules?
Arizona, Ohio, Pennsylvania and several other states allow the use of one CW that must be known to the notary, and must know the signer.

States that allow 1 or 2 Credible Witnesses
California, Florida, and Georgia, among other states, allow the use of one CW if the witness is known to the notary and knows the signer; or two CW’s if the notary doesn’t know either of the witnesses. These states are unique in that they offer a choice of using one or two credible witnesses.

States that allow 2 Credible Witnesses
Tennessee and Missouri allow the use of two credible witnesses to identify a signer.

Procedure
Credible Witness Rules can vary from state to state, but as a general rule, you should not use a credible witness unless there is no identification available. In many cases, the identification available will have a different name variation on it, making it unacceptable to be used when signing documents that have a longer, or different name variation. Whether or not its legal to use credible witnesses in this type of situation is something to look up in your state’s notary manual.

The credible witness must SIGN the notary’s journal in California. Rules vary from state to state, so be knowledgeable about your particular state’s rules. The CW must raise their right hand and swear to the identity of the signer. The CW must also have acceptable identification. It is wise for the notary to record the CW’s address, ID#, and phone number in their journal.

Common Uses
If a notary is doing a jail signing, inmates never have acceptable ID on them unless a visitor brings it. When doing a jail signing, an attorney, relative, or friend of the inmate will normally meet you. Make sure they are going to bring the inmate’s ID and that the ID is current and state issued.

Hospital signings involve signers who are too elderly to drive in many instances. These folks often don’t have current identification making the use of CW’s necessary.

If you notarize someone who lost their ID, or doesn’t have one becase they don’t drive, you might need credible witnesses.

If the name variation on the document is slightly different from the name on the ID, you might check your state notary manual to see if using a credible witness in this situation is allowed.

Issues
A few notaries on our Facebook network have pointed out that many loan signings should not be done using credible witnesses. One notary in Pennsylvania stated that for loans that require USA Patriot Act ID verification, credible witnesses should not be used. Another notary in Florida points out that the CW is swearing to the fact that the signer does not have the acceptable identification documents and that it is difficult or impossible to find such documents.

Credible Witness Notary
There is no such thing as a credible witness notary, however you can be a notary that uses credible witnesses. Just make sure you know how many credible witnesses to use.

Summary
After being a notary public in California for eight years, I found that 15% of my signings would not have been possible without the use of credible witnesses, among other “Plan B” type procedures. Many notaries try to get through their career learning as little as possible about what they need to know to get the job done. You will be letting future clients down if you are not an expert at credible witness procedures for your particular state. You could be letting countless clients go high and dry if you don’t know this procedure. Please consult your state’s notary manual to learn exactly what all of the CW requirements (credible witness notary rules) are for your state.

You might also like:

Credible Witnesses – the process explained
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=16695

Credible Witness Scenarios
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=18911

Credible Witnesses – the ins and outs
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=19634

Forum string: Credible Witnesses – the basics

Can a notary be a witness?

Comments (1)

February 3, 2019

Credible Witness Notary — information & resources

Filed under: Credible Witnesses — Tags: CA Notary 2 Credible Witnesses, California Credible Witness, California Credible Witness Information, California Notary Credible Witness, credible witness, credible witness notary, credible witnesses — admin @ 8:26 am

Here are some links that explain the credible witness process in the Notary profession. Please keep in mind that each state has a different procedure and rules for credible witnesses and a few states don’t allow this practice at all. Please also keep in mind that a Credible Witness for Notary work is also called a Credible identifying witness as their function is to identify signers who lack proper identification.

California Credible Witness Information
There is a long list of things a California Credible Witness must swear to that go above and beyond the identity of the signer. The credible witness must also swear that the signer cannot easily obtain identification. Here are what the CW must swear to:

1. The individual appearing before the notary public as the signer of the document is the person named in the document;

2. The credible witness personally knows the signer;

3. The credible witness reasonably believes that the circumstances of the signer are such that it would be very difficult or impossible for the signer to obtain another form of identification;

4. The signer does not possess any of the identification documents authorized by law to establish the signer’s identity; and general information

5. The credible witness does not have a financial interest and is not named in the document signed.

Please note that the credible witness does not have to swear that the signer has a particular legal name. Shouldn’t that be the whole point of the Oath?

Please refer to page eight and nine of the 2018 California Notary Public Handbook for details.
http://notary.cdn.sos.ca.gov/forms/notary-handbook-2018.pdf

Information & Resources

Credible witnesses from A to Z
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=452

Glossary Entry — Credible Witness
http://www.123notary.com/glossary/?credible-witness

Which states allow credible witnesses?
http://www.123notary.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4047

Credible Witnesses — the process explained
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=16695

NNA’s guide to credible witnesses
https://www.nationalnotary.org/notary-bulletin/blog/2015/10/notary-challenge-how-handle-credible-witness

NotaryClasses.com guide to credible witnesses
https://www.notaryclasses.com/tutorials/homestudy/56.aspx

Can a notary act as a witness?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=21359

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Comments (0)

April 20, 2013

Types of witnesses in the notary profession

Filed under: Witnessing — Tags: credible witness, Executing Witness, Notary, Notary Profession, One Credible Witness, Subscribing Witness, Two credible witnesses, witness, Witness to a Will, Witnesses, Witnessing Signatures on Wills — admin @ 10:25 pm

Types of Witnesses in the Notary Profession

All the names of witnesses in the notary profession can be confusing if you don’t know your terminology. I am going to write a brief tutorial of various types of witnesses.

Witness
Anyone who witnesses a signature can be a witness. In general you should be 18 years of age or older to serve as a witness. A witness could engage in the act of witnessing a signature.

Credible Witness
Most states allow the use of Credible Witnesses to identify a signer. Some states will allow two Credible Witnesses who know the signer, but do NOT know the notary. Some states will allow one Credible Witness who knows the signer as well as the notary. Some states will allow one or two Credible Witnesses. Consult your state’s notary handbook for details.

Credible Identifying Witness
A more legal or technical term for a Credible Witness

Executing Witness
Also known as a Subscribing Witness that would be used in a Proof of Execution signing. Don’t make a mistake on this type of notarization or the joke is that you will be executed!

Subscribing Witness
A witness who watches someone else sign their name. The word “sign” can sometimes be synonomous with the word “subscribe”.

Subscribing Witness for a Signature by X signing
A Subscribing Witness is also the term for someone who watches and assists in a Signature by Mark or Signature by X signing.

Witness to a Jurat Signature
Notaries are required by law to witness signatures that correspond to Jurat notarizations. Signatures that are to be acknowledged on the other hand, do NOT need to be witnessed, and can be signed before (even years before) the signature is acknolwedged.

Witness to a Will
Being a witness to a Will is similar to any other type of witnessing, except for the fact that the witness might need to (or probably should) document the fact that they witnessed a will signing on the signature page of the Will. Wills are by definition, orten much more serious than any other type of document.

They are often more important even than Power of Attorney documents or Grant Deeds. Another reason why witnessing signatures on Wills is so critical is because the signer will probably be dead if and when the document is disputed. It is too late to drag someone into court to testify if they are deceased!

You might also like:

Compilation of posts about credible witnesses
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=20414

Can a notary witness a Will or notarize one?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=1525

Credible Witnesses from A to Z
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=452

Identification requirements for being notarized
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=4299

Comments (0)

April 19, 2012

California Credible Witness Requirements

Filed under: Credible Witnesses — Tags: 1 credible witness, credible witness, Credible Witness Requirements, credible witnesses, Oath of credible witnesses, Two credible witnesses — admin @ 12:56 am

California credible witness requirements

If you are a California notary public, and you are at a signing where the signer doesn’t have a current government issued photo identification document, (or EXPIRED is okay if issued within the last five years) you will not be authorized to notarize the signature of that signer without the use of credible witness(es).

When can a California notary use credible witnesses?
If the signer has no identification, or if it is going to be very difficult to obtain (perhaps it got misplaced and is very far away), then you can use one or two credible witnesses depending on whether or not you know the witnesses.

When can I use only 1 Credible Witness?
If the Notary in California knows the credible witness relatively well, and the credible witness knows the signer’s full name (without you having to tell them the complete name), then you can use just 1 Credible Witness

When can I use 2 Credible Witnesses?
If the California Notary Public doesn’t know the Credible Witness, then you need to depend on the Oath of 2 Credible Witnesses who know the signer’s full name.

Identifying the Credible Witness
You need to check the identification cards or documents of the Credible Witnesses. If they don’t have any, then you can not use them. They need to have current, (or EXPIRED if issued within the last five years) government issued photo identification with a physical description, signature, serial number, and expiration date.

Oath of Credible Witnesses in California
The California notary needs to have the Credible Witnesses (one by one) swear under oath that they will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Then, ask them what the name of the signer is who you are pointing to. If the answer is, “Joe”, then make sure to ask if “Joe” has a middle or last name that they are aware of. If they can’t answer this question, then perhaps they are not the ideal witness for you!

Documenting the Signature of the Credible Witness in your journal.
It is required by law to document the signature of the Credible Witness or Witnesses in your journal. Have them sign in the notes section, NOT the signature section. Have the document signer sign in the signature section. It is optional but recommended that you also document the printed name, address, phone number, and identification information about the Credible Witnesses in your journal.

If the idenfication is expired – what is the issue date?
On California drivers licenses, there is an issue date documented at the BOTTOM of the card. This date is not labeled as an issue date, but it is clearly several years before the expiration date, and you can logically deduce that that was the issue date.

Get a thumbprint? It is a stronger proof of identity than anything else!
If you are identifying a signer in California based on the oaths of credible witnesses, I would strongly recommend getting a thumbprint of the signer in your journal. Although only required by law for Deeds and Powers of Attorney notarizations, the thumbprint is a much stronger proof of the identity of the signer than the Oaths of a few people who hardly know the signer. Please keep in mind that in rural Tennessee, you probably know your neighbors well, and your family’s have probably known each other since not far after the Mayflower landed. But, in urban or suburban-sprawl California, you probably don’t know anyone well because people tend to not know each other in California. Credible Witness rules were created a long time ago when people used to know each other a lot better.

You might also like:

Credible Witness notary resources and information
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=21404

A new California notary law
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=3054

California e-notary rules
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2077

Comments (1)

January 17, 2011

What is a credible witness notary or notarization?

Filed under: Credible Witnesses — Tags: credible identifying witness, Credible Witness Notarization, credible witness notary — admin @ 3:43 am

What is a credible witness notary or credible witness notarization?

There is no such thing as a credible witness notary. Credible Witnesses are individuals who are willing to swear to the identity of another individual who is signing a document in the presence of a notary public. The notary who is notarizing a signature may not act as a credible identifying witness. However, some states allow a notary to identify a signer based on personal knowledge which is similar in nature (but not terminology) to being a Credible Witness.

There is also no such thing as a credible witness notarization. However, you could refer to a notarization as one that uses credible witnesses. Credible identifying witnesses should not be used unless a proper identification document is not available. Please also keep in mind that many credible witnesses these days do not know the full name of whomever’s identity they are swearing to. For the sake of integrity, you might want to ask the proposed credible witness, “What is this man’s full name?”. If they say, “Joe?”, and then shrug their shoulders, then perhaps they don’t know Joe as well as they should to be a credible identifying witness.

You might also like:

Where do credible witnesses sign the notary journal book?
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2508

Oath of two credible witnesses
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2405

Subscribing witnesses and Signature by X
http://blog.123notary.com/?p=2278

Comments (0)

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